Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby The Finch on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:51 am

narrativedilettante wrote:
HarDHarKoopa wrote:I can't quite remember the specifics, do we know if that murder was here or in his story? If the latter, I think him getting mental help, and a chance to live a new life isn't that bad. In a weird way, didn't he not have a choice for his previous murder(s)? He was written to do so by an author. If he uses his new free will, unbound by the scribes quill, to be a new man, I say let him.


The murder was in his story. The man he's referring to is Pirelli, the first man he kills in the play.


Pirelli was the Barber who Sweeney killed after he was challenged to a duel in the park.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby NeverSlender on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:51 am

New post. Poirot has started investigating him. Sweeney appears to be improving but he says he's seen strange people followin him and is being left strange messages.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:54 am

HarDHarKoopa wrote:I can't quite remember the specifics, do we know if that murder was here or in his story? If the latter, I think him getting mental help, and a chance to live a new life isn't that bad. In a weird way, didn't he not have a choice for his previous murder(s)? He was written to do so by an author. If he uses his new free will, unbound by the scribes quill, to be a new man, I say let him.


While an author may have written him to do that, as far as his universe goes, he acted with just as much free will as we do now. In the metaverse model, if you look at just one level of reality and the levels below it, that level will always seem to be unaffected because a character will not just act because the author said so, they act because that is their character. Each character is a person of their own. Tat is how we can say something is "In-Character" and "Out-Of-Character". Interestingly, this implies that there is no OOC, because all stories where the characters are OOC, such as bad fanfic, merely create a new instance of the universe.

I also need to ask someone more involved in this section than I am to post on Poirot's blog and give him a summary of our information and investigation.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Dryunya on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:02 am

I'll try to tell him about the Cabal and the threats (I think he can read the information about BB in his client's blog, and I can't really say anything about Sweeney Todd). Do you think we should link him to the voicemail? He may not appreciate it if we do, but it's a valuable source of info.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Scarab on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:03 pm

Sicon112 wrote:
HarDHarKoopa wrote:I can't quite remember the specifics, do we know if that murder was here or in his story? If the latter, I think him getting mental help, and a chance to live a new life isn't that bad. In a weird way, didn't he not have a choice for his previous murder(s)? He was written to do so by an author. If he uses his new free will, unbound by the scribes quill, to be a new man, I say let him.


While an author may have written him to do that, as far as his universe goes, he acted with just as much free will as we do now. In the metaverse model, if you look at just one level of reality and the levels below it, that level will always seem to be unaffected because a character will not just act because the author said so, they act because that is their character. Each character is a person of their own. Tat is how we can say something is "In-Character" and "Out-Of-Character". Interestingly, this implies that there is no OOC, because all stories where the characters are OOC, such as bad fanfic, merely create a new instance of the universe.

I also need to ask someone more involved in this section than I am to post on Poirot's blog and give him a summary of our information and investigation.


I agree with you, Sicon, although it must be noted that during the time of that canons writing, mentalities about mental illness were very different to now. In trth it doesn't really matter whether or not he acts or believes himself to act with freewill, because sending him back to that time period would throw him right back into the same situatioon - a world which has no hope of either understanding or treating him. I'm not condoneing his actions, but... I think we have to consider how it might have been different.

All this has me thinking a lot about the treatment of mental disorders, post traumatic stress, scizophrenia, all of those things. Imagine all the stuff they used to do to people back in the days before we truly understood. It's kind of a little heartbreaking, when you think about it...
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:06 pm

Scarab wrote:I agree with you, Sicon, although it must be noted that during the time of that canons writing, mentalities about mental illness were very different to now. In trth it doesn't really matter whether or not he acts or believes himself to act with freewill, because sending him back to that time period would throw him right back into the same situatioon - a world which has no hope of either understanding or treating him. I'm not condoneing his actions, but... I think we have to consider how it might have been different.

All this has me thinking a lot about the treatment of mental disorders, post traumatic stress, scizophrenia, all of those things. Imagine all the stuff they used to do to people back in the days before we truly understood. It's kind of a little heartbreaking, when you think about it...


Again, it's not as though they must go straight back to their universe. We could always send them to a new one.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Guyshane on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Sicon112 wrote:
Scarab wrote:I agree with you, Sicon, although it must be noted that during the time of that canons writing, mentalities about mental illness were very different to now. In trth it doesn't really matter whether or not he acts or believes himself to act with freewill, because sending him back to that time period would throw him right back into the same situatioon - a world which has no hope of either understanding or treating him. I'm not condoneing his actions, but... I think we have to consider how it might have been different.

All this has me thinking a lot about the treatment of mental disorders, post traumatic stress, scizophrenia, all of those things. Imagine all the stuff they used to do to people back in the days before we truly understood. It's kind of a little heartbreaking, when you think about it...


Again, it's not as though they must go straight back to their universe. We could always send them to a new one.

are you suggesting we write a fanfic to send him into?
I say we nuke it from orbit...its the only way to be sure.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby NeverSlender on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:15 pm

Guyshane wrote:
Sicon112 wrote:
Scarab wrote:I agree with you, Sicon, although it must be noted that during the time of that canons writing, mentalities about mental illness were very different to now. In trth it doesn't really matter whether or not he acts or believes himself to act with freewill, because sending him back to that time period would throw him right back into the same situatioon - a world which has no hope of either understanding or treating him. I'm not condoneing his actions, but... I think we have to consider how it might have been different.

All this has me thinking a lot about the treatment of mental disorders, post traumatic stress, scizophrenia, all of those things. Imagine all the stuff they used to do to people back in the days before we truly understood. It's kind of a little heartbreaking, when you think about it...


Again, it's not as though they must go straight back to their universe. We could always send them to a new one.

are you suggesting we write a fanfic to send him into?


I think this was discussed in the sending them back thread.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Wysp on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:39 pm

@ Dryunya: Let's not tell him that we know about the voice-mail. It's proven useful as a hidden source of info and leverage so far, I'd rather not tip our hand, and he might get suspicious of us, wondering why we're getting into her private mail. He is a gentleman like that.

I've posted a summary of everything I feel comfortable telling him, and I've begun work on breaking the news to Joan that her P.I. is fictional as well.

...We need to do something to ensure that she's physically protected from the Cabal. She isn't willing to go into hiding like Joe was. She's totally exposed to anyone with ill intent. We can't risk using Sweeney as an aggressive asset until he's more sane, and Poirot is following him, not her.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Scarab on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:47 pm

Wysp wrote:@ Dryunya: Let's not tell him that we know about the voice-mail. It's proven useful as a hidden source of info and leverage so far, I'd rather not tip our hand, and he might get suspicious of us, wondering why we're getting into her private mail. He is a gentleman like that.

I've posted a summary of everything I feel comfortable telling him, and I've begun work on breaking the news to Joan that her P.I. is fictional as well.

...We need to do something to ensure that she's physically protected from the Cabal. She isn't willing to go into hiding like Joe was. She's totally exposed to anyone with ill intent. We can't risk using Sweeney as an aggressive asset until he's more sane, and Poirot is following him, not her.


True, but the question is how? How do we give her actual physical protection? The only people I can think of who couldprovide said protection are the fictionals we know so far, or possibly the guards of the wall and THEY'RE kinda tied up protecting reality now.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Guyshane on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:04 pm

Scarab wrote:
Wysp wrote:@ Dryunya: Let's not tell him that we know about the voice-mail. It's proven useful as a hidden source of info and leverage so far, I'd rather not tip our hand, and he might get suspicious of us, wondering why we're getting into her private mail. He is a gentleman like that.

I've posted a summary of everything I feel comfortable telling him, and I've begun work on breaking the news to Joan that her P.I. is fictional as well.

...We need to do something to ensure that she's physically protected from the Cabal. She isn't willing to go into hiding like Joe was. She's totally exposed to anyone with ill intent. We can't risk using Sweeney as an aggressive asset until he's more sane, and Poirot is following him, not her.


True, but the question is how? How do we give her actual physical protection? The only people I can think of who couldprovide said protection are the fictionals we know so far, or possibly the guards of the wall and THEY'RE kinda tied up protecting reality now.

So why don't we write a new one and ask Mr.A to send the new guy to protect the good doctor
I say we nuke it from orbit...its the only way to be sure.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby JackAlsworth on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:08 pm

I'm not sure Mr. A is particularly inclined to add more fictional characters to our world at this point.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Guyshane on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:10 pm

JackAlsworth wrote:I'm not sure Mr. A is particularly inclined to add more fictional characters to our world at this point.

Would it hurt to ask?
I say we nuke it from orbit...its the only way to be sure.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Wysp on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:18 pm

If everything goes according to plan, the Cabal will have bigger things to worry about than Poirot and Joan.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Scarab on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:29 pm

Wysp wrote:If everything goes according to plan, the Cabal will have bigger things to worry about than Poirot and Joan.


Maybe, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with taking the risk.

Should we at least send her a polite warning so she can try and protect herself more?
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Wysp on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:30 pm

I don't think she'd take us seriously. We need to amass more evidence before we bring it to her.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:45 pm

Well, Poirot is present for the time being, so I think that is a help. He is pretty good at getting out of nasty situations.

It at least will hold for now.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Paradox on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:37 am

It seems Poirot is wrapping up his case on Sweeney Todd now though.
Could it be a worth while idea to try and give him a new case, this time investigating/tailing Joan?

We could say that we suspect people may be targeting her with ill intent, and we would like him to stick around and see if he can find out for sure?
The voice mail is probably enough evidence to make him consider it I think, unless he takes it badly that we broke into her private voice mail and uploaded them for all to hear.

Still, I'd say it's an idea to consider?
If only to keep him close by for a little longer, just in case.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Dryunya on Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:23 am

I told him about the stalkers in the comments... I don't think he reacted. :(
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:38 pm

Paradox wrote:It seems Poirot is wrapping up his case on Sweeney Todd now though.
Could it be a worth while idea to try and give him a new case, this time investigating/tailing Joan?

We could say that we suspect people may be targeting her with ill intent, and we would like him to stick around and see if he can find out for sure?
The voice mail is probably enough evidence to make him consider it I think, unless he takes it badly that we broke into her private voice mail and uploaded them for all to hear.

Still, I'd say it's an idea to consider?
If only to keep him close by for a little longer, just in case.


Sounds like a good idea to me.

Dryunya wrote:I told him about the stalkers in the comments... I don't think he reacted. :(


I've warned him about the Cabal in every comment since they arrived. Strangely, every single one of those comments has been blatantly ignored. It's not that hard to tell than in a few posts he is going to get stuck in the middle of something with the Cabal that could have easily been stopped if he paid attention to me. See, this is why I'm getting pissed off over here...
Normal people are the easiest to manipulate. Too smart and they have an annoying tendency to catch wind of your plans, too dumb and, in the words of a certain pirate, "You can never tell when they are about to do something incredibly...stupid."
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Tohrinha on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:38 pm

http://mindsandmatters.ezblog.twwf.info/?p=99
Not promising.
Right thread? New thread needed?
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Tohrinha wrote:http://mindsandmatters.ezblog.twwf.info/?p=99
Not promising.


Look on the bright side-- she got home safely.
And... what has Poirot wrought? (not like I can really blame him on this one)
Theory: Soon Todd will know that he's fictional, one way or another.
Will he end up with the Cabal? (Probably, unless we can prove to him that his wife is alive and waiting for him back in his story.)
Why are we even arguing about a dead fictional dude and hypothetical ninjas?

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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:54 pm

One way or another indeed, and I'm going to make it MY way. I just contacted Poirot as our man on the scene. Let's see how this goes down.
Normal people are the easiest to manipulate. Too smart and they have an annoying tendency to catch wind of your plans, too dumb and, in the words of a certain pirate, "You can never tell when they are about to do something incredibly...stupid."
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Tohrinha on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:22 pm

Sicon112 wrote:One way or another indeed, and I'm going to make it MY way. I just contacted Poirot as our man on the scene. Let's see how this goes down.

Shouldn't matter, but I just noticed that in one of your sentences:
I believe Moriarty is busy attempting to trap Holmes in New York, but he is working with us for now, and we should be OK.

you could be implying that we're working with Moriarty.
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Re: Protecting "Sweeney Todd" and the notebook

Postby Sicon112 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Tohrinha wrote:
Sicon112 wrote:One way or another indeed, and I'm going to make it MY way. I just contacted Poirot as our man on the scene. Let's see how this goes down.

Shouldn't matter, but I just noticed that in one of your sentences:
I believe Moriarty is busy attempting to trap Holmes in New York, but he is working with us for now, and we should be OK.

you could be implying that we're working with Moriarty.
Don't you love English? :)


Yes, yes I do. I think he gets what I mean though...
Normal people are the easiest to manipulate. Too smart and they have an annoying tendency to catch wind of your plans, too dumb and, in the words of a certain pirate, "You can never tell when they are about to do something incredibly...stupid."
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