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IslaKariese wrote:

Scarab wrote:I suspect Romeo may already have decided he doens't wish to return home to Verona.

Yeah, he's taken to this world like a fish to water. I don't think he's even using Ye Olde English anymore. It'll just make it harder to send them back, especially if he's fallen out of love with Juliet.

He is also wearing shades everywhere apparently, which is a mental image I find hilarious. Anyway, I've got some manipulations I just kicked into gear. For now, I shouldn't need any assistance. Just testing the waters to see what kind of responses I get and collecting information. If anything comes of it, I'll let you guys know.

Sicon112 wrote:He is also wearing shades everywhere apparently, which is a mental image I find hilarious. Anyway, I've got some manipulations I just kicked into gear. For now, I shouldn't need any assistance. Just testing the waters to see what kind of responses I get and collecting information. If anything comes of it, I'll let you guys know.

You and your Xanatosian ways. Don't hurt anyone's feelings too badly, alright?

Well, I suggested Romeo take Juliet on a date to show her he still cares. Followed up by watching 'The Princess Bride'. Hopefully the true love part will help him get his head on straight. while it's good he's acclimatisation (insofar it lessens the chance that he'll attract the wrong sort of attention), We need to keep things on the rails, I think.

Should we tell Jules about Vanessa, or leave it to Bromeo?

Guys, we really do need to try to keep the two together. If for no other reason then we need them BOTH to go back. We need them all to go back. If Romeo falls in love with Vanessa, he wouldn't want to return to Verona, especially since that means no longer having reddit or youtube. If we teach Juliet how to live as an independent woman in this world, she may start to like it than her life in Verona.

We need to remind them of their love. We need to keep them together. And we need to keep them focused and ready on their return trip home. I know it'll be a while, but it is going to happen.

Although, meta-wise, I know that the plot will lead them to falling apart and perhaps both deciding they'd rather stay in this world, before something else pushes them back together. But even so, we shouldn't be encouraging them away from one another. We shouldn't want them to break up. It's just not right.

IslaKariese wrote:

Sicon112 wrote:He is also wearing shades everywhere apparently, which is a mental image I find hilarious. Anyway, I've got some manipulations I just kicked into gear. For now, I shouldn't need any assistance. Just testing the waters to see what kind of responses I get and collecting information. If anything comes of it, I'll let you guys know.

You and your Xanatosian ways. Don't hurt anyone's feelings too badly, alright?

OK, ok. I promise not to upset anyone. Unless it amuses me. Then I can't make any promises.

Pixelmage wrote:I'm starting to think that we should not try to hold the two together... Actually... If we start acting aganist it, then the plot sets into motion, after all, they want each other because their families are aganist it. If we try to split them... Reverse Psychology of the worst class. But might be a way...

I like this idea. Acting as if the Montague and Capulet viewpoint of keeping them separated is best for them.

Yvonmukluk wrote:Should we tell Jules about Vanessa, or leave it to Bromeo?

I fear that may just break them apart even further. As of now, Vanessa's just a distraction. She may become a bit of a problem further down the road, but not something Juliet needs to be concerned of at the moment. Romeo hasn't confessed his love for her, as far as I know, and although I am certain he's developing a crush on her, I'm not entirely sure he's aware of it. I think the best option is to try to remind Romeo how much he loves Juliet. Although, like several others have said, I was never convinced that Romeo and Juliet truly loved each other in their story. But this might be our opportunity to get them to fall in love, for real, by encouraging them to spend quality time together and to get to know one another without any feuds to make their "forbidden love" seem cool.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Guys, we really do need to try to keep the two together. If for no other reason then we need them BOTH to go back. We need them all to go back. If Romeo falls in love with Vanessa, he wouldn't want to return to Verona, especially since that means no longer having reddit or youtube. If we teach Juliet how to live as an independent woman in this world, she may start to like it than her life in Verona.

We need to remind them of their love. We need to keep them together. And we need to keep them focused and ready on their return trip home. I know it'll be a while, but it is going to happen.

Although, meta-wise, I know that the plot will lead them to falling apart and perhaps both deciding they'd rather stay in this world, before something else pushes them back together. But even so, we shouldn't be encouraging them away from one another. We shouldn't want them to break up. It's just not right.

But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

Pixelmage wrote:But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

Sounds like a gambit with a high risk of failing. How strange would it be if we all just changed our tune and posted on their blogs that they don't belong together? And even if we did start playing the roles of their families, it still wouldn't have the same impact. Who are we to them? We're just voices on the internet that they can just ignore or turn off.

I feel like our best bet is to continue to encourage their love. At the very least, Juliet seems to be responding well to them. Romeo seems to be trying.

Pixelmage wrote:But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

I don't think you could sum up what I'm thinking of like that. A little nudge here, a push there.... carrot and the stick. Manipulation is so fun!

Sicon112 wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

I don't think you could sum up what I'm thinking of like that. A little nudge here, a push there.... carrot and the stick. Manipulation is so fun!

*rolls eyes* Refer to previous post.

IslaKariese wrote:

Sicon112 wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

I don't think you could sum up what I'm thinking of like that. A little nudge here, a push there.... carrot and the stick. Manipulation is so fun!

*rolls eyes* Refer to previous post.

Have you not heard of complexity addiction?

Btw Sicon, considering posts like this one, is guile HERO really an appropriate trope for you?

IslaKariese wrote:

Sicon112 wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:But thinking plot, if we try breaking them up, we'll be playing the role of the families. Meaning we'd get the effect of keeping them together... What do you guys think? Well... Perhaps that's what Sicon is planning anyway...

I don't think you could sum up what I'm thinking of like that. A little nudge here, a push there.... carrot and the stick. Manipulation is so fun!

*rolls eyes* Refer to previous post.

Refer to previous response.

NeverSlender wrote:Have you not heard of complexity addiction?

Btw Sicon, considering posts like this one, is guile HERO really an appropriate trope for you?

Of COURSE I've heard of complexity addiction. How the hell do you think it got blue shifted into my character description? As for the hero thing, I'm not the one who put that there. ^_^ I suppose that since I'm helping you, I sort of count as an anti-hero. Like maybe type five...

Joking aside, I was being semi-serious about the manipulation strategy. When talking about playing people, you HAVE to use Xanatos Speed Chess. I've gotten enough practice at it to sell ice to eskimos. There is basically this feeling you get after enough experience. You can tell how far you can pressure someone, and the exact moment to stop. It really can't be described with words, and the plan has to be so fluid and ever changing that it really cannot be made until you start the conversation. You guess a few moves ahead down as many of the most likely paths you can see, and just get ready to go with the flow as fast as possible.

Of course, there are many things you can do before hand to make success easier. The situation has a large effect on how amenable people are to your suggestions, and your portrayal of your character has to be JUST right.

But I could go on about this for AGES and probably multiple posts, so I'll stop now and get something useful done.

I've had a thought. Not a theory or anything, just a thought I ought to get down before it escapes me. The main reason for wanting to keep them together is that it's more likely to encourage them to go back beyond the wall, right? But is that nessecarily the case?

I mean, why if, hypothetically, they knew the truth about what would happen to them in Verona (granted there are other theories abounding, such as the they're-actually-copies-with-no-story-to-go-back-to theory, but still), and knew that if they can and did go back, their relationship would eventually result in their deaths? Maybe now that they're drifting apart, if they were to go back seperated (again, assuming they even can go back), that WOULDN'T happen and, knowing this was the case, they might choose to do things differently?

Being aware of the fact that their relationship ends in death if it remains would probably be a serious sticking point for them if they knew, either way...

Sicon112 wrote:
Of COURSE I've heard of complexity addiction. How the hell do you think it got blue shifted into my character description? As for the hero thing, I'm not the one who put that there. ^_^ I suppose that since I'm helping you, I sort of count as an anti-hero. Like maybe type five...

Joking aside, I was being semi-serious about the manipulation strategy. When talking about playing people, you HAVE to use Xanatos Speed Chess. I've gotten enough practice at it to sell ice to eskimos. There is basically this feeling you get after enough experience. You can tell how far you can pressure someone, and the exact moment to stop. It really can't be described with words, and the plan has to be so fluid and ever changing that it really cannot be made until you start the conversation. You guess a few moves ahead down as many of the most likely paths you can see, and just get ready to go with the flow as fast as possible.

Of course, there are many things you can do before hand to make success easier. The situation has a large effect on how amenable people are to your suggestions, and your portrayal of your character has to be JUST right.

But I could go on about this for AGES and probably multiple posts, so I'll stop now and get something useful done.

If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

Scarab wrote:I've had a thought. Not a theory or anything, just a thought I ought to get down before it escapes me. The main reason for wanting to keep them together is that it's more likely to encourage them to go back beyond the wall, right? But is that nessecarily the case?

I mean, why if, hypothetically, they knew the truth about what would happen to them in Verona (granted there are other theories abounding, such as the they're-actually-copies-with-no-story-to-go-back-to theory, but still), and knew that if they can and did go back, their relationship would eventually result in their deaths? Maybe now that they're drifting apart, if they were to go back seperated (again, assuming they even can go back), that WOULDN'T happen and, knowing this was the case, they might choose to do things differently?

Being aware of the fact that their relationship ends in death if it remains would probably be a serious sticking point for them if they knew, either way...

I don't plan on telling them that they are going to die. It's possible they won't even hear it, if the "spoiler-free" theory is true.

But that doesn't matter. If they split up here, one or the other, but most likely Romeo, may choose not to return to Verona. However, if we can keep them together, they'd have no reason to want to stay here and they would both be willing to return. This is our end goal. I see no other way around it.

NeverSlender wrote:If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

The point of my gigantic essay is that something so simple isn't going to work. In manipulation something like "reverse psychology" is a TOOL to be used in pursuit of an end, not a SOLUTION.

Sicon112 wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

The point of my gigantic essay is that something so simple isn't going to work. In manipulation something like "reverse psychology" is a TOOL to be used in pursuit of an end, not a SOLUTION.

In order to need a solution, we need a problem. If this is part of the plot, there's nothing we can do, meaning we don't have a problem.

NeverSlender wrote:

Sicon112 wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

The point of my gigantic essay is that something so simple isn't going to work. In manipulation something like "reverse psychology" is a TOOL to be used in pursuit of an end, not a SOLUTION.

In order to need a solution, we need a problem. If this is part of the plot, there's nothing we can do, meaning we don't have a problem.

You are looking at this situation in absolutes again, which is another big nono. A solution doesn't need to be "Complete resolution of the issues" a solution in manipulation can just be something that makes such a resolution simply by ANY DEGREE at some later date.

Sicon112 wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

The point of my gigantic essay is that something so simple isn't going to work. In manipulation something like "reverse psychology" is a TOOL to be used in pursuit of an end, not a SOLUTION.

I think you're forgetting that these are characters in an ARG, and are thus confined to a set plotline. Their paths are predetermined. I doubt you can manipulate them in any way away from their already predestined paths.

Sicon112 wrote:You are looking at this situation in absolutes again, which is another big nono. A solution doesn't need to be "Complete resolution of the issues" a solution in manipulation can just be something that makes such a resolution simply by ANY DEGREE at some later date.

Yes, but if it's part of the plot, it will resolve itself.

If I'm honest, my main issue here is I'm just not interested in fixing there relationship when they both seem like idiots. Especially Bromeo.

Now that their little romance is threatening the stability of the metaverse, I'll ask Mr. A for his thoughts on the matter.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

Sicon112 wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:If I'm honest acting the role of the families would be pretty easy I think. I just don't think it's a good idea.

The point of my gigantic essay is that something so simple isn't going to work. In manipulation something like "reverse psychology" is a TOOL to be used in pursuit of an end, not a SOLUTION.

I think you're forgetting that these are characters in an ARG, and are thus confined to a set plotline. Their paths are predetermined. I doubt you can manipulate them in any way away from their already predestined paths.

This.

NeverSlender wrote:Yes, but if it's part of the plot, it will resolve itself.

If I'm honest, my main issue here is I'm just not interested in fixing there relationship when they both seem like idiots. Especially Bromeo.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:I think you're forgetting that these are characters in an ARG, and are thus confined to a set plotline. Their paths are predetermined. I doubt you can manipulate them in any way away from their already predestined paths.

What I am doing is not hindering the plot, but working with it to make a resolution faster and easier. Since this is an interactive media format, our actions affect how the plot moves. Therefore, we account for this and work within it. Direct resistance gains nothing, but pitfalls can be avoided easily enough.

Sicon112 wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:Yes, but if it's part of the plot, it will resolve itself.

If I'm honest, my main issue here is I'm just not interested in fixing there relationship when they both seem like idiots. Especially Bromeo.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:I think you're forgetting that these are characters in an ARG, and are thus confined to a set plotline. Their paths are predetermined. I doubt you can manipulate them in any way away from their already predestined paths.

What I am doing is not hindering the plot, but working with it to make a resolution faster and easier. Since this is an interactive media format, our actions affect how the plot moves. Therefore, we account for this and work within it. Direct resistance gains nothing, but pitfalls can be avoided easily enough.

Our efforts to speed up the plot seem to go badly e.g. The detectives going on the run. They didn't meet until the GMs wanted them to.