Cabal Discussion

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

Psst, who's willing to bet Mister A has a crush on CInderella? I'm taking bets here, people!

"WELL, ALL RIGHT. JUST THE ONE DANCE, THEN. AND DON'T TELL ANYONE WE KNOW."

[Dryunya]

Cinderella is now chilling with Administrator Prime. "WE TOLD YOU ALREADY, WE ARE NOT YOUR FAIRY GODMOTHER. WE ARE NOT ANYONE'S FAIRY GODMOTHER. NOW PLEASE LEAVE. WE HAVE INSTANTIATIONS TO MANAGE."

OOOOOOOH, so that's how Mr. A knows she isn't in ay danger. He just doesn't want to tell us because it would be embarrassing.

Psst, who's willing to bet Mister A has a crush on CInderella? I'm taking bets here, people!

Hey, hands off my Mr. A / WW shipping!

You make a good point, But I agree with Sicon on this. Lefey and Moriarty are two evil overlords... No way in hell they're all honest with each other, at most they agreed on objectives...

You know, there's one more thing that we may have to factor.
Moriarty is hitting on Morgana. And on both shards where they are present (I'm now assuming that Moriarty is the guy with the glasses), one is holding the other. Their (dis)agreements may have a more... complicated nature.
The speculations on that matter are best left to some of us who has actually seen a real girl in his life.

[Pixelmage]

The speculations on that matter are best left to some of us who has actually seen a real girl in his life.

Agreed. I'll leave this to a more capable mind and stay safe in my basement.

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

Psst, who's willing to bet Mister A has a crush on CInderella? I'm taking bets here, people!

Hey, hands off my Mr. A / WW shipping!

Don't worry-- we can still ship the Mr. A we regularly deal with with the Witch; we're shipping Cindy with Administrator PRIME.

You know, there's one more thing that we may have to factor.
Moriarty is hitting on Morgana. And on both shards where they are present (I'm now assuming that Moriarty is the guy with the glasses), one is holding the other. Their (dis)agreements may have a more... complicated nature.
The speculations on that matter are best left to some of us who has actually seen a real girl in his life.

You make a good point. But keep in mind that Moriarty is a Manipulative Bastard; even if his crush on her is genuine-- and let's not discount that they might both be faking to manipulate the other-- he probably won't hesitate to betray her if he thinks she won't find out. (Yes I realize that's the opposing argument to what I was saying before. But I think it's healthy to consider both sides, especially when dealing with the Cabal.)

[Dryunya]

Don't worry-- we can still ship the Mr. A we regularly deal with with the Witch; we're shipping Cindy with Administrator PRIME.

One True Infinitysome?

[narrativedilettante]

Psst, who's willing to bet Mister A has a crush on CInderella? I'm taking bets here, people!

Hey, hands off my Mr. A / WW shipping!

Don't worry-- we can still ship the Mr. A we regularly deal with with the Witch; we're shipping Cindy with Administrator PRIME.

You know, there's one more thing that we may have to factor.
Moriarty is hitting on Morgana. And on both shards where they are present (I'm now assuming that Moriarty is the guy with the glasses), one is holding the other. Their (dis)agreements may have a more... complicated nature.
The speculations on that matter are best left to some of us who has actually seen a real girl in his life.

You make a good point. But keep in mind that Moriarty is a Manipulative Bastard; even if his crush on her is genuine-- and let's not discount that they might both be faking to manipulate the other-- he probably won't hesitate to betray her if he thinks she won't find out. (Yes I realize that's the opposing argument to what I was saying before. But I think it's healthy to consider both sides, especially when dealing with the Cabal.)

I'm somewhat amazed that the two ships that have emerged from this so far both involve Mr. A.

As for Moriarty's relationship with Morgana... While I think he'd definitely want to impress her and stay on her good side, I don't believe that he'd sacrifice his own plans for hers unless there was a REALLY compelling reason. He's not the kind of person who lets those kinds of feelings influence his actions, at least, not when there's something important going on. If Moriarty sees an advantage to something that Morgana's against, I believe he'd just do it without involving her. Of course, this might cause trouble when she finds out.

[Scarab]

I'm somewhat amazed that the two ships that have emerged from this so far both involve Mr. A.

Meh, something about the stoic, socially awkward type just brings out peoples inner shippers, I guess. Besides didn't Isla once say that Mister A really REALLY needs to get laid and lighten up already?

And that has given me thoughts I need to go bleach my brain to get rid of now, thanks guys.

Don't worry-- we can still ship the Mr. A we regularly deal with with the Witch; we're shipping Cindy with Administrator PRIME.

When you think about it, we're not exactly short on instantations, you could ship them with pretty much anybody.

[YankeeWhite]

RE the idea that The Cabal want ALL fictionals to stay. You know what they say, You Can't Make An Omelette...

[narrativedilettante]

Don't worry-- we can still ship the Mr. A we regularly deal with with the Witch; we're shipping Cindy with Administrator PRIME.

Whoah, that was Qara-Xuan, not me!

[Scarab]

RE the idea that The Cabal want ALL fictionals to stay. You know what they say, You Can't Make An Omelette...

Why do they want everyone to stay though? With the exception of possibly wanting to continue past rivalries (what is Moriarty without Holmes?) why does it matter to them who stays and who goes, so long as they get to remain here?

[JackAlsworth]

Why do they want everyone to stay though? With the exception of possibly wanting to continue past rivalries (what is Moriarty without Holmes?) why does it matter to them who stays and who goes, so long as they get to remain here?

Possibly for the principle of the thing? If we never figure out how to send anyone back, we can't ever send them back, either.

(Note that this is taking a lot of assumptions on my part, and we all know how that turns out.)

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

RE the idea that The Cabal want ALL fictionals to stay. You know what they say, You Can't Make An Omelette...

Why do they want everyone to stay though? With the exception of possibly wanting to continue past rivalries (what is Moriarty without Holmes?) why does it matter to them who stays and who goes, so long as they get to remain here?

I think Morgana implied that if we manage to send one person back, then we may be able to use the same process on them, even against their will. They'd rather prevent us from returning anyone, so we won't even know how it's done. (ninja'd by Jack on this one)

Plus there's strength in numbers; they probably figure we won't have time to track them down and send them back if we're busy keeping track of all the other fictionals (i.e., making sure Don Quixote doesn't tilt at electric poles, preventing Peter Pan from getting locked up as a pedophile, protecting Lawson from Todd). If we sent everyone back, then we'd have time to focus on them.

[Scarab]

I think Morgana implied that if we manage to send one person back, then we may be able to use the same process on them, even against their will. They'd rather prevent us from returning anyone, so we won't even know how it's done. (ninja'd by Jack on this one)

So basically, they're assuming we'll be as big a jerks as they are and not show any consideration at all for what individuals actually want? Am I missing something important here? Wouldn't be the first time I had, but at this point I'm thinking...

Well, sure at the moment we don't really have any CHOICE but to send them back, but we're working on it, and I'm sure that, if we were able to figure out how to do it, we'd be able to show a little disgression on what actually happened to them? If they have a good case to stay (Frankenstein's Monster, for example, has pretty good reasons not to want to go home), promise not to cause any trouble, AND we've found a place where they can exist without destroying the universe, then I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to remain out of their own universes. It isn't about what we have time to do. I'm sure if we can find a way to do what's right by them, then we can do what's right by them.

In fact by making it harder for us theyr'e DECREASING the time we have to focus on finding a way to send them back OR help them stay which is only bad for all fictionals (and uniersal stability) in the not-so-long run.

Nowthe CABAL on the other hand, have basically already dug themselves in a hole. Even if we hadn't been convinced they were villains by their mere existence (let's face it, it's why they were created) they pretty much squandered any hope they had of us LISTENING to them by immediately jumping on the 'Joe's threatening letters' bandwagon.

[narrativedilettante]

It's not the Cabal's fault they're villains; as noted, they were written that way. If we want to send them back for that reason alone, then they already have no reason to trust us or cooperate with us. They've likely been reacting out of fear, as much as outright villainy.

However, they have demonstrated that they are willing and able to pose serious threats to real and fictional people in this world. At this point, I don't think they either WANT a compromise or deserve one. They are going back. End of story.

[Zup]

My theory is that Moriarty and Oberon both have their own, separate plans going on. Morgana likely wants to take over the world, like the Witch, except she can actually do it. Moriarty probably wants to secretly send all of them home, except for himself, so he can control this world like he did his. He's working with them in order to get us motivated to send them all home-- he is probably researching a way to do this and tested it on Cindarella, much to Don Juan's surprise.

In any case, I think we're dealing with several layers of villainy. Villains are never really united in their motivations and schemes. They scheme against each other as well as us.

[Dryunya]

So pity I can't handle Gambit Pileups.
However, according to Holmes, it was probably Don Juan who sent Cinderella back (again, if we assume Moriarty is the guy with the glasses - Don Juan fits the description as "a good-looking guy who could use a shave"). Which means that he either knew about the plan (in which case probably they all did), or he was used as an Unwitting Pawn (Moriarty had given him some instructions, he followed them, and whoa), in which case he gets to know a part of his plan anyway. Meta-wise it is still too early for the Cabal to fall apart (or even get some of its members killed), so I assume Moriarty wouldn't invoke He Knows Too Much on Don Juan. Ergo, even if all of the Cabal didn't know about his plan to send Cinderella back, they will soon (or already do). So Moriarty probably has some justification that would satisfy his accomplices, or they were in this together.

(And Cinderella being sent back is merely a hypothesis yet, don't forget that.)
...Now that I think about it, why do we even keep talking about Moriarty? His involvement beyond conducting research is not even proven.

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

I think we got derailed on Moriarty because of a) the Holmes connection; b) the fact that it was clearly Moriarty's apartment Holmes broke into; and c) Moriarty is a more formidable foe, to most of us, than Don Juan.

But good point, Dryu; we've all been forgetting that it was Juan who got to Cindy.
Is it possible that this wasn't Moriarty's plan-- that (if they did send Cindy back) Juan (and possibly Erik) tried this without telling S or O, because he and Erik are more keen on the potential peaceful solutions?

[Pixelmage]

I believe the focus on Moriarty is more of a lack of respect for Juan. I mean, who here thinks he is capable of being the sole actor in this chain of events, please, raise your hands.
No one?
That's what I thought. =P

Everyone is assuming that to outplay Holmes it had to be Moriarty. But I disagree. In fact, Moriarty is perhaps the less able to handle the Holmes front of operations, because both of them have to deal with the new setting! Playing aganist the other is familiar ground, as unconfortable as it might be for Holmes to move in NY, it's still the usual to go aganist the Moriarty he knows, therefore, the best course of action is to delegate the handling of Holmes to a wild card, one that he'll have to learn from the beginning and will have no prior knowledge to work with.

[DAcriznips]

It just doesn't fit with the cabal's plans to find fictionals and sent them back, despite how dangerous certain characters are. I think that there is more to kidnapping Cinderella than just trying to keep her in the real world or sending her back. If the cabal were keeping tabs on joe, then they would've seen the video of when Cinderella stepped through the crack. HOWEVER, she was the only one who literally stepped through the wall while conscious or was able to find, (or create), the cracks in reality.

Thinking back, every fictite so far was unconsious, has no recollection of how they got here, arrived here through some event that links our world to theirs (west witch-tornado), or have holes in their stories that allow them to pass into our world (rabbit hole theory-cheshire cat?). There must've been something powerful near her to create that force (as see n in the video) to allow her to step through. This is where Morgana and Moriarty come in since with lefey's magic and his intellect, they might be able to recreate cracks of their own so that they can bring or send back whoever they want.

Edit: if this has already been mentioned, then i mightve missed it cause im typing this from my phone

[S_o_S]

It just doesn't fit with the cabal's plans to find fictionals and sent them back, despite how dangerous certain characters are. I think that there is more to kidnapping Cinderella than just trying to keep her in the real world or sending her back. If the cabal were keeping tabs on joe, then they would've seen the video of when Cinderella stepped through the crack. HOWEVER, she was the only one who literally stepped through the wall while conscious or was able to find, (or create), the cracks in reality.

Thinking back, every fictite so far was unconsious, has no recollection of how they got here, arrived here through some event that links our world to theirs (west witch-tornado), or have holes in their stories that allow them to pass into our world (rabbit hole theory-cheshire cat?). There must've been something powerful near her to create that force (as see n in the video) to allow her to step through. This is where Morgana and Moriarty come in since with lefey's magic and his intellect, they might be able to recreate cracks of their own so that they can bring or send back whoever they want.

Edit: if this has already been mentioned, then i mightve missed it cause im typing this from my phone

Are you suggesting that Cindy's Fairy Godmother had something to do with sending her through the crack? Because I like this theory.

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

It just doesn't fit with the cabal's plans to find fictionals and sent them back, despite how dangerous certain characters are. I think that there is more to kidnapping Cinderella than just trying to keep her in the real world or sending her back. If the cabal were keeping tabs on joe, then they would've seen the video of when Cinderella stepped through the crack. HOWEVER, she was the only one who literally stepped through the wall while conscious or was able to find, (or create), the cracks in reality.

Thinking back, every fictite so far was unconsious, has no recollection of how they got here, arrived here through some event that links our world to theirs (west witch-tornado), or have holes in their stories that allow them to pass into our world (rabbit hole theory-cheshire cat?). There must've been something powerful near her to create that force (as see n in the video) to allow her to step through. This is where Morgana and Moriarty come in since with lefey's magic and his intellect, they might be able to recreate cracks of their own so that they can bring or send back whoever they want.

Edit: if this has already been mentioned, then i mightve missed it cause im typing this from my phone

You make a very good point. They might think that she came here deliberately (did she? maybe?) and assume that she shares their goals. Or they might figure she's the one most likely to know how to pull more people through, which they'd probably be more than happy to try.

Edit: OH MY GOODNESS theory about her disappearance: Maybe Cindy knows how to teleport? By using the cracks in reality or something? And... they didn't send her back to her story; she TOOK Don Juan with her via teleportation to some other place, to hide their trail!

[Dryunya]

Basically, we've got a ton of different possible plans and exploits of their reverse-engineering the interactions with the wall.
I think we should try to find the possible scenarios that don't involve Cinderella being sent back, just because I think there is a limited number of these.

...I got nothing.

[Victin]

It just doesn't fit with the cabal's plans to find fictionals and sent them back, despite how dangerous certain characters are. I think that there is more to kidnapping Cinderella than just trying to keep her in the real world or sending her back. If the cabal were keeping tabs on joe, then they would've seen the video of when Cinderella stepped through the crack. HOWEVER, she was the only one who literally stepped through the wall while conscious or was able to find, (or create), the cracks in reality.

Thinking back, every fictite so far was unconsious, has no recollection of how they got here, arrived here through some event that links our world to theirs (west witch-tornado), or have holes in their stories that allow them to pass into our world (rabbit hole theory-cheshire cat?). There must've been something powerful near her to create that force (as see n in the video) to allow her to step through. This is where Morgana and Moriarty come in since with lefey's magic and his intellect, they might be able to recreate cracks of their own so that they can bring or send back whoever they want.

Edit: if this has already been mentioned, then i mightve missed it cause im typing this from my phone

Are you suggesting that Cindy's Fairy Godmother had something to do with sending her through the crack? Because I like this theory.

Now I'm thinking of the Fairy Godmother and Tinkerbell working together.

[Dryunya]

And... they didn't send her back to her story; she TOOK Don Juan with her via teleportation to some other place, to hide their trail!

Unlikely. DJ didn't come close to her chair, and he fell on the floor - WMGably, after the teleport flash. So he had to stay behind anyway.

[Pixelmage]

Basically, we've got a ton of different possible plans and exploits of their reverse-engineering the interactions with the wall.
I think we should try to find the possible scenarios that don't involve Cinderella being sent back, just because I think there is a limited number of these.

...I got nothing.

Bait us.
Direct our efforts towards where they dictate. They know we'll investigate her disappearance. If she's not to be used in a plan, she could very well distract us long enough for them to enact their real plan, whatever that might be.