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Dryunya wrote:

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:And... they didn't send her back to her story; she TOOK Don Juan with her via teleportation to some other place, to hide their trail!

Unlikely. DJ didn't come close to her chair, and he fell on the floor - WMGably, after the teleport flash. So he had to stay behind anyway.

She teleported across the room to where he was, then teleported away by herself.
Or, hell, she teleported away herself and she's not actually with the Cabal right now so we're barking up the wrong tree trying to figure out why they wanted her in the first place.

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:

Dryunya wrote:

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:And... they didn't send her back to her story; she TOOK Don Juan with her via teleportation to some other place, to hide their trail!

Unlikely. DJ didn't come close to her chair, and he fell on the floor - WMGably, after the teleport flash. So he had to stay behind anyway.

She teleported across the room to where he was, then teleported away by herself.
Or, hell, she teleported away herself and she's not actually with the Cabal right now so we're barking up the wrong tree trying to figure out why they wanted her in the first place.

What?

Question: How can Cindy teleport? Even if we assume she crossed deliberatelly, we can't assume she can cross the cracks at will.

Pixelmage wrote:Question: How can Cindy teleport? Even if we assume she crossed deliberatelly, we can't assume she can cross the cracks at will.

That was my WMG, based on the fact that it's the only way to explain the circumstances under which she disappeared, without resorting to her returning to her story.

No. NO. I may accept Cinderella getting teleported back to fictionland, but her teleporting on a whim is absurd. Unless you have some solid proof, just don't go that wild.

Pixelmage wrote:Bait us.
Direct our efforts towards where they dictate. They know we'll investigate her disappearance. If she's not to be used in a plan, she could very well distract us long enough for them to enact their real plan, whatever that might be.

I meant how she could disappear from the room without getting touched. Also, she followed Don Juan willingly. Basically, the Cabal may, too, have a ton of reasons to kidnap Cinderella (or whatever), but we still need to reconstruct what happened there.

Dryunya wrote:Also, she followed Don Juan willingly. Basically, the Cabal may, too, have a ton of reasons to kidnap Cinderella (or whatever), but we still need to reconstruct what happened there.

We as yet have no evidence that she's actually with the Cabal. So either she followed him willingly, or she didn't go with him at all.
And either way, both of them mysteriously disappeared in a manner which we cannot yet explain.

I don't think she was so much kidnapped as tricked into going with Don Juan - Holmes' blog post mentioned how she was waiting for a prince, and then of course the note "And they all lived happily ever after". I believe Cinderella has developed feelings for Don Juan somehow - I can't say for certain, and nor can I say whether he feels the same, but it seems to fit.

This of course assumes that she's now with the Cabal and if that's the case, Cinderella may well be our enemy now.

Scene: Holmes was way more late than he realized and Juan left with Cindy walking out (the back door, perhaps) out of their own free will before he got there.

Pixelmage wrote:Scene: Holmes was way more late than he realized and Juan left with Cindy walking out (the back door, perhaps) out of their own free will before he got there.

Except the mystery of the footprints, which end abruptly in the middle of the floor, remains. (Can they hover?)

Good point, S_o_s-- she probably did go with DJ on the basis that he's her "handsome prince."

Suggestion: I've mentioned this before, but the idea crystallizes even more now. Cinderella is now (hypothetically) allied with the Cabal because she thinks Juan's her prince. But we can break that alliance if we give her a new, better prince-- namely, Romeo.
It would kill both birds with one stone.
...Or Don Quixote (hey, as a Don he's on the same social class as Juan! And he'd love the idea of a fair maiden to rescue from the clutches and seductions of a group of villains... actually, that joke idea's starting to sound better to me...)
Something to think about, anyway.

Only we'd have to get Quixote to NY... But well... Lulz?

S_o_S wrote:I don't think she was so much kidnapped as tricked into going with Don Juan - Holmes' blog post mentioned how she was waiting for a prince, and then of course the note "And they all lived happily ever after". I believe Cinderella has developed feelings for Don Juan somehow - I can't say for certain, and nor can I say whether he feels the same, but it seems to fit.

This of course assumes that she's now with the Cabal and if that's the case, Cinderella may well be our enemy now.

Remember that Cinderella's alias was Sandy: she could be the same Adam talked about, unless the PMs broke the One Steve Limit.

Pixelmage wrote:Only we'd have to get Quixote to NY... But well... Lulz?

It's be nice for Holmes. Then he wouldn't have to go to Seattle.

Victin wrote:Remember that Cinderella's alias was Sandy: she could be the same Adam talked about, unless the PMs broke the One Steve Limit.

This is a case of two Steves. Cindy was in New York while Adam's Sandy was in Chicago.

Here's my idea. Cindy did indeed go back through the wall into fictionland, but the Cabal had nothing to do with it. She figured it out on her own.

All the math equations in the apartment? It was all hers. She was also the one who had been watching Sherlock and Poirot, explaining why Sherlock saw her at the ball and at the coffee shop. It wasn't coincidence, she was following them. She was hoping that they may provide her some clues as to how to return home. But instead, she found some other means.

It's possible Don Juan was involved, but not as a kidnapper. It's possible the Cabal learned that Cinderella was getting close to solving the mystery of returning home, and had sent Don Juan to stop her. He arrived at the hotel and ran into the room where Cinderella was about to make her leap, but arrived just in time to see her go. Shocked, he fell backwards, and then left in disgrace when he saw that she was gone.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Here's my idea. Cindy did indeed go back through the wall into fictionland, but the Cabal had nothing to do with it. She figured it out on her own.

All the math equations in the apartment? It was all hers. She was also the one who had been watching Sherlock and Poirot, explaining why Sherlock saw her at the ball and at the coffee shop. It wasn't coincidence, she was following them. She was hoping that they may provide her some clues as to how to return home. But instead, she found some other means.

It's possible Don Juan was involved, but not as a kidnapper. It's possible the Cabal learned that Cinderella was getting close to solving the mystery of returning home, and had sent Don Juan to stop her. He arrived at the hotel and ran into the room where Cinderella was about to make her leap, but arrived just in time to see her go. Shocked, he fell backwards, and then left in disgrace when he saw that she was gone.

That makes an awful lot of sense. But if she did cross back, she went through the wall (consequently through the void) therefore, this one theory is simple to confirm or disprove: Mr. A. must be able to tell whether or not it she went back to the other side.

Shall someone tweet him then?

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Here's my idea. Cindy did indeed go back through the wall into fictionland, but the Cabal had nothing to do with it. She figured it out on her own.

All the math equations in the apartment? It was all hers. She was also the one who had been watching Sherlock and Poirot, explaining why Sherlock saw her at the ball and at the coffee shop. It wasn't coincidence, she was following them. She was hoping that they may provide her some clues as to how to return home. But instead, she found some other means.

It's possible Don Juan was involved, but not as a kidnapper. It's possible the Cabal learned that Cinderella was getting close to solving the mystery of returning home, and had sent Don Juan to stop her. He arrived at the hotel and ran into the room where Cinderella was about to make her leap, but arrived just in time to see her go. Shocked, he fell backwards, and then left in disgrace when he saw that she was gone.

That makes an awful lot of sense. But if she did cross back, she went through the wall (consequently through the void) therefore, this one theory is simple to confirm or disprove: Mr. A. must be able to tell whether or not it she went back to the other side.

Yeah, I was going to ask him, but then I saw this: https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs/sta ... 4466038784

I feel like he knows exactly what happened, but he's waiting for the right moment to share.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Here's my idea. Cindy did indeed go back through the wall into fictionland, but the Cabal had nothing to do with it. She figured it out on her own.

All the math equations in the apartment? It was all hers. She was also the one who had been watching Sherlock and Poirot, explaining why Sherlock saw her at the ball and at the coffee shop. It wasn't coincidence, she was following them. She was hoping that they may provide her some clues as to how to return home. But instead, she found some other means.

It's possible Don Juan was involved, but not as a kidnapper. It's possible the Cabal learned that Cinderella was getting close to solving the mystery of returning home, and had sent Don Juan to stop her. He arrived at the hotel and ran into the room where Cinderella was about to make her leap, but arrived just in time to see her go. Shocked, he fell backwards, and then left in disgrace when he saw that she was gone.

That makes an awful lot of sense. But if she did cross back, she went through the wall (consequently through the void) therefore, this one theory is simple to confirm or disprove: Mr. A. must be able to tell whether or not it she went back to the other side.

Yeah, I was going to ask him, but then I saw this: https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs/sta ... 4466038784

I feel like he knows exactly what happened, but he's waiting for the right moment to share.

The question then becomes: what's the right moment? Why withhold information from us?

EDIT: I decided to tweet him anyway, just in case.

"CONFIRM OUR SOURCES" sounds like he's not totally sure himself. He's "withholding information" because he's not positive the information is correct.

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:Except the mystery of the footprints, which end abruptly in the middle of the floor, remains. (Can they hover?)

I'm pointing out the footsteps, too.

WALL OF TEXT WARNING

Here's the picture:

1. Don Juan gets Cinderella to follow him, presumably by his charm and being all handsomy and princy and all.
2. Both enter the storage room, Cinderella approaches the chair (and presumably sits on it - People Sit On Chairs ).
3. Don Juan doesn't approach the chair.
4. Something happens, and Don Juan falls on the floor.
5. DJ leaves, leaving the "And they lived happily ever after" note.
6. Cinderella doesn't leave any outgoing footsteps.

So, while we may debate over Cabal's intentions all we want, but the mystery at hand is Cinderella's unexplained disappearance. The theory that she got sent back covers most of the scene, but raises too many questions. WAY too many. We should keep it as our theory until we find a better one.

The only mundane solution I can think of: Cinderella jumped onto Don Juan from the chair just because he instructed her to do that to mess with us, then he just lifted her and left. That makes next to zero sense, and is too noticeable. Also, Holmes would probably notice something suspicious in their collective bodyprint (or what's the word?).

The other question: why would Don Juan lead her to a secluded place, if it's safe to assume he didn't have DonJuanian intentions? Well, they could have a talk, but they could do it somewhere in a cafe, or just outside. If Don Juan didn't want to be seen, he wouldn't waltz in like that, so it's not an issue for him.
I hate it when we already have some theory, because I keep coming back to it all the time.

Ok. Let's think like Holmes and try to eliminate the impossible.
Getting her there and then just getting her out without leaving footprints (maybe she was suspended from the ceiling, or something) makes no sense (not really impossible, but still). There are no existing means for her to disappear from the chair.

I guess we have to go for nonexistent ones. That is, teleportation - spatial, temporal, or dimentional. Otherwise, Don Juan would still have to pick her up.

tl;dr: I guess I agree with your theory on Cinderella's getting sent back.

I've been oversimplifying things, so I may have missed something. If anyone has something to add to this rant, do so, and I'm leaving you for today.

S_o_S wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Yeah, I was going to ask him, but then I saw this: https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs/sta ... 4466038784

I feel like he knows exactly what happened, but he's waiting for the right moment to share.

The question then becomes: what's the right moment? Why withhold information from us?

Well, he said he's checking his sources. That could mean anything, but mostly that someone like Moriarty could be trying to trick him.

JackAlsworth wrote:"CONFIRM OUR SOURCES" sounds like he's not totally sure himself. He's "withholding information" because he's not positive the information is correct.

Incidentally, his terminology reminds me a lot of the way Metaneko phrased himself ("see if I can do certain things" or something like that) before revealing his masterful trolling session.

narrativedilettante wrote:It's not the Cabal's fault they're villains; as noted, they were written that way. If we want to send them back for that reason alone, then they already have no reason to trust us or cooperate with us. They've likely been reacting out of fear, as much as outright villainy.

However, they have demonstrated that they are willing and able to pose serious threats to real and fictional people in this world. At this point, I don't think they either WANT a compromise or deserve one. They are going back. End of story.

OK, OK, I know I'm bringing up an old post, but I feel compelled to because this makes absolutely zero sense. Not the Cabal's fault they are villains? Whaaaaaat? Of COURSE it's their fault, that is their PERSONALITY. To say something like that is, in essence, to assume that all fictional characters are fictional even in their own universe, and the "people" who play them are completely separate persons. This doesn't make any sense at all. They are written as villains because that is the personality of the character. From inside their fictional universe, there IS no apparent control of them. They have a history of cause and effect that led them to becoming who they are in the stories. Simply because they are outside the stories is NO reason to assume that their personalities have completely changed, because that would mean that they somehow has TWO personalities.

Sicon112 wrote:

narrativedilettante wrote:It's not the Cabal's fault they're villains; as noted, they were written that way. If we want to send them back for that reason alone, then they already have no reason to trust us or cooperate with us. They've likely been reacting out of fear, as much as outright villainy.

However, they have demonstrated that they are willing and able to pose serious threats to real and fictional people in this world. At this point, I don't think they either WANT a compromise or deserve one. They are going back. End of story.

OK, OK, I know I'm bringing up an old post, but I feel compelled to because this makes absolutely zero sense. Not the Cabal's fault they are villains? Whaaaaaat? Of COURSE it's their fault, that is their PERSONALITY. To say something like that is, in essence, to assume that all fictional characters are fictional even in their own universe, and the "people" who play them are completely separate persons. This doesn't make any sense at all. They are written as villains because that is the personality of the character. From inside their fictional universe, there IS no apparent control of them. They have a history of cause and effect that led them to becoming who they are in the stories. Simply because they are outside the stories is NO reason to assume that their personalities have completely changed, because that would mean that they somehow has TWO personalities.

Basically, what Sicon said. The fact is when they made those choices in book... yes, it was because an author directed them as such, but they constructed their personalities in order to MAKE them do such.

And even if they didn't have free will...they darn well have it NOW and the first thing they chose to do was send threatening letters? Maybe they don't know any other way but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to get away with it and they've had MORE than enough time to figure out how this world works and begin adapting accordingly. Even the WICKED WITCH is showing some comprehension of how this world works, they have no excuse for continuing to act like villains in a world where things are less black and white because they're still CHOOSING to do it. In some ways, in fact, it makes them WORSE.

Am I the only one who's seeing four guests users?

Victin wrote:Am I the only one who's seeing four guests users?

...I'm seeing zero now (damn it, Victin, the paranoia level is high enough as it is.)