Discussion of E-mails to and from the Cabal

[narrativedilettante]

I'm working on another email to Morgan, but I'm waiting to see if she gets back to me from last week. If I don't hear from her tonight I'll just go ahead and send it to her.

[H22]

Do you think they could upload a picture?

[Pixelmage]

He already said that he moved them from their starting positions. That's not new information. xD

But they're trying to sell us the trinket... Now I wish I wasn't in another country... I'd really like to keep a Wall Piece souvenir...

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

So this just happened.

What interests me most is that Morgana said Silver had contacted the Cabal again because he thinks staying here might help him reunite with Gulliver.

Which means, as I said in my reply to her, either the Cabal are flat-out lying to Silver, or they're flat-out lying to and playing US. Or both. I'll put my money on both.

[Adell]

So this just happened.

What interests me most is that Morgana said Silver had contacted the Cabal again because he thinks staying here might help him reunite with Gulliver.

Which means, as I said in my reply to her, either the Cabal are flat-out lying to Silver, or they're flat-out lying to and playing US. Or both. I'll put my money on both.

It could be that HE believes (She uses these exact words) remaining here will give him a better chance of seeing Gulliver again, and has convinced himself that the Cabal is his best shot at this. They might not have done any lying, but now that he's contacted them with his intentions they are probably avoiding revealing the truth to make working with him easier.

[narrativedilettante]

Morgan suggested to me that we have someone investigate the Majestic Theater again. I'll take that over to the wall-piece thread.

I'm working on a reply to her now, but I'm burned out from writing at the moment so I'm going to take a little break before I finish it.

[Dryunya]

So, I'm catching up a little (since I was here today anyway), and I'll be replying as I go, as usual.

Sorry for the delay in communications – Don Juan did something foolish to our router when he was over for thanksgiving, and Erik just came by to fix it.

This confirms my speculations that Erik is their tech guy - I thought so, since he started Pheeble. Also, I don't even. Everyone is receiving Computer Awareness As The Plot Demands.
And it means that, at least on Thanksgiving, they were in the same location. It may still be true, even though they mostly spend their time doing their job (we still don't know what do Don Juan and Moriarty do, though).

While the part of the wall piece remains in our position is just a physical shell of the Wall Piece, we have to say... it's quite an attractive trophy. Those of you who assist us will be pleased.

I don't know what's worse: the fact that they are trying to bribe us with shiny trinkets, or the fact that I, given the geographical opportunity, totally would have betrayed the universe for them.

We helped arrange the possibility for Joan. We are glad that she has deemed to take it.

As I posted in her thread, details are needed. I'm not buying it the way it is.

There is a QR code on the side of the wall pieces, presumably placed by the Administrator or his agents. Scanning that returns the pieces essence to the wall immediately.

And with that, I'm starting my speculations.

1. It's obvious that Morgana sidesteps our questions.
2. It IS obvious that they tricked LJS into thinking that they can bring Gulliver back (which also means that he does care). I mean, he just thought that he can make him fall through? C'mon. (Even if he does, we can't be sure he doesn't end up in an Alternate Universe - our model does not contradict these, and we can't disprove their existence.)
3. The wall pieces are something physical, they are Feelies that we are, apparently, free to take, and Morgana says they are too tied up to get them. And, Morgana is meta-screaming "I won't advance my plotline until you get the wall piece already".
   That said, here's what I think will happen.
   
   1. If we refuse to get the pieces, we either get an alternate path, or they get the pieces themselves. I think it's the latter, just because it's frustrating to write a plotline, only to abandon it later - it's not like we can replay the ARG.
      
   2. If we do get the piece, the Cabal won't follow the location in the letter - in the very least, they'll give us the time to do it ourselves, because they have already told us what to do with the pieces we find (and, well, they are Feelies).
      (I'm not sure what happens if you Take A Third Option and take the piece without scanning it, and I leave it for you to find out. )

[Pixelmage]

Agree with pretty much everything you said Dryu... But about this:

(...) or the fact that I, given the geographical opportunity, totally would have betrayed the universe for them.

How dare you say that?! You're not the only one, definitely not the only one. xD

[Genndy Oda C.O.G.]

Agree with pretty much everything you said Dryu... But about this:

(...) or the fact that I, given the geographical opportunity, totally would have betrayed the universe for them.

How dare you say that?! You're not the only one, definitely not the only one. xD

Likewise.

[H22]

And me.


[*]It IS obvious that they tricked LJS into thinking that they can bring Gulliver back (which also means that he does care). I mean, he just thought that he can make him fall through? C'mon. (Even if he does, we can't be sure he doesn't end up in an Alternate Universe - our model does not contradict these, and we can't disprove their existence.)
[*]The wall pieces are something physical, they are Feelies that we are, apparently, free to take, and Morgana says they are too tied up to get them. And, Morgana is meta-screaming "I won't advance my plotline until you get the wall piece already".
That said, here's what I think will happen.

1. If we refuse to get the pieces, we either get an alternate path, or they get the pieces themselves. I think it's the latter, just because it's frustrating to write a plotline, only to abandon it later - it's not like we can replay the ARG.
   
2. If we do get the piece, the Cabal won't follow the location in the letter - in the very least, they'll give us the time to do it ourselves, because they have already told us what to do with the pieces we find (and, well, they are Feelies).
   (I'm not sure what happens if you Take A Third Option and take the piece without scanning it, and I leave it for you to find out. )

[/list][/quote]

I fail to see why LJS now has to be an expert on the Metaverse Model. Occam's Razor; is it more likely a random pirate is unaware of the complex mechanisms of the 4th Wall or that, for some reason which currently escapes me, a group of masterminds randomly decide to adopt an intricate policy of deceit? John is a Maniplative Bastard (who probably would have seen through it all anyway) but not a genius scientist. Gulliver got here; in John's acute emotional turmoil, why shouldn't he think he could get back?

[Scarab]

Agree with pretty much everything you said Dryu... But about this:

(...) or the fact that I, given the geographical opportunity, totally would have betrayed the universe for them.

How dare you say that?! You're not the only one, definitely not the only one. xD

Yeah if you recall, I'm the one who made the initial get-one-piece suggestion in the first place. And given the way the plot feels like it's going, at the moment, I'm still not convined thast ISN'T the right thing to do.

As for trusting Morgan... well... no.

[narrativedilettante]

According to her last email to me, she seems to think Qara owes apologies to both her and Long John Silver.

She also says that they've informed LJS that it's "unlikely" he'll see Gulliver again here, implying that they're not misleading him but merely trying to console him and give him the truth gently.

I've also asked her for more details about her involvement with Joan Lawson's new job. I figured I'd step in on this, since it looks like I might be the only one she's on good terms with at the moment.

[S_o_S]

Agree with pretty much everything you said Dryu... But about this:

(...) or the fact that I, given the geographical opportunity, totally would have betrayed the universe for them.

How dare you say that?! You're not the only one, definitely not the only one. xD

Yeah if you recall, I'm the one who made the initial get-one-piece suggestion in the first place. And given the way the plot feels like it's going, at the moment, I'm still not convined thast ISN'T the right thing to do.

... I'll just go sit in the corner then, shall I?

But I do agree with Scarab's sentiments, I see no reason for us not to continue attempting to obtain the single piece.

[Scarab]

.. I'll just go sit in the corner then, shall I?

But I do agree with Scarab's sentiments, I see no reason for us not to continue attempting to obtain the single piece.

Sorry, SOS.
SOS was also heavily involved.

[Guyshane]

Um a rather worrying thought has occurred to me. why haven't we seen any evidence of Moriarty yet? What is he doing while were talking to Morgana?

[H22]

I don't mean to offend, but I do think an apology from Qara would help exponentially. Lying to John is another matter, perhpas, but I still feel various of the emails were extremely rude. But that's just how I personally feel. In her last email to me, she seemed to say that the people wo had been rudeto her her misled and would hopefully see the light. Now, clearly, her patience is wearing thin.
Yes, I thought it was sos's idea too. But clearly the UK metaguards are more supportive! Shame we're the ones who collectively can do the least about it

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

Much as I am loath to accept moralizing from Morgana, I am considering the best way to make overtures to LJS; if he was actually emotionally hurt, then I do intend to apologize for damage incurred.

With respect to Metaguards whose sensibilities may be offended, though, I will not apologize to Morgana, nor do I feel I owe her one-- or anything. While I was offline, and left to mull things over, a number of insights and comparisons about the Cabal occurred to me. I won't elaborate due to Rule 6, but the entire group is, in my mind, irredeemably evil. I will not treat with terrorists, and I will not contact Morgana again, except, when I have the time, to tell her exactly how I feel.

[Dryunya]

Well, you have a template for that, don't you?

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

Well, you have a template for that, don't you?

Well, I was thinking of something a little more personal, and specific. I've drafted the letter, but I need to wait for a spot of consultation before I can send it in good conscience. Stupid "other people's schedules not being the exact same as mine".

[H22]

On the other side, I have many comparisons about the Cabal, starting with my homeland's dismal record with that policy over the past 40 years, (or 90, if you count the government's handling of the IRA), but RULE 6. Just remember that these people are not actually terrorists, and that there is no such thing as irredeemably evil.

Much as I am loath to accept moralizing from Morgana, I am considering the best way to make overtures to LJS; if he was actually emotionally hurt, then I do intend to apologize for damage incurred.

With respect to Metaguards whose sensibilities may be offended, though, I will not apologize to Morgana, nor do I feel I owe her one-- or anything. While I was offline, and left to mull things over, a number of insights and comparisons about the Cabal occurred to me. I won't elaborate due to Rule 6, but the entire group is, in my mind, irredeemably evil. I will not treat with terrorists, and I will not contact Morgana again, except, when I have the time, to tell her exactly how I feel.

You were still rude.
Anyway, tactically WE MUST BE REALIST. Much as it may give some of us moral succour, it is useless to just ignore them.

[Dryunya]

That may sound harsh, but the time for moral dilemmas is over. The deadline is coming, with an emphasis on "dead".
If you have problems with this, remember what Xana speeched about the Nuclear Option.

[H22]

Well, my position:

The Cabal are not 'terrorists'. According to Merriam-Webster, terrorism is 'the systematic use of terror for coercion.' They have never used terror, let alone systematically, and have never coerced. Semantics, in its proper meaning, is actually very important, at least when to some extent your argument depends on it.

What is to be gained by shouting at the Cabal? Public hangings may seem satisfying, but I fails to say how our interests - the interests of humanity, freedom, and justice - is served by just shouting at some fictites (who, need I remind you, have a right to freedom just like everyone else.) They have apologised to Joe. Made amends to Joan. Have condemned the crimes Moriarty may have committed. From lynching them, cui bono? How do we help by just being rude to them? The sidequsts can, to be honest, ONLY be obtained by an alliance. Three have been refic'd. Did the Cabal prevent these people from going to them happy home? No.

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

I'm not forcing anyone else to cut ties like I plan to, H. I understand and respect that your worldview is different than mine, and hell, I recognize that I also have a lot to gain from some people remaining on good terms with them.

But I don't give a damn about dictionary definitions here, and don't ask me to compromise my position on this. It's too close to home atm.

[H22]

I'm not forcing anyone else to cut ties like I plan to, H. I understand and respect that your worldview is different than mine, and hell, I recognize that I also have a lot to gain from some people remaining on good terms with them.

But I don't give a damn about dictionary definitions here, and don't ask me to compromise my position on this. It's too close to home atm.

Well, I'm so glad (that sounds sarcastic, but it's not) that we've managed that. It's completely cool what you choose to email to Morgan. I will respect your opinion.

[Scarab]

Well, my position:

The Cabal are not 'terrorists'. According to Merriam-Webster, terrorism is 'the systematic use of terror for coercion.' They have never used terror, let alone systematically, and have never coerced. Semantics, in its proper meaning, is actually very important, at least when to some extent your argument depends on it.

...They sent threatening letters that implied death would result from Joe's cointinuation into investigating them in an attempt to make him stop. That sounds like terrorism to me.