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I cannot effing believe I'm doing this.
Okay so, ignoring all complications, here’s our main conflict –do we go for the Wall Pieces, or do we just continue with the refic?

I’m sorry but I am going to have to go meta here: The refics can only happen once enough echoes have been discovered for that character, and each one has a set time limit during which it HAS to occur. We can’t just do them all at once. But gathering the wall pieces could happen at any time and then the game would end (at which point the world is either doomed or not doomed.)

So...with this in mind, the theory buzzing around about us being deliberately segregated into two groups, one finding pieces for the Cabal and one for Mister A, doesn't make sense, at this point because the piece gatherers would be done before the reficcers could even get halfway there. Presumably the GM’s planned for this and there’s something that will happen if we gather all the pieces. But whatever the case we know that this CANNOT end the game.

SO! In spite of the fact of my own misgivings about how bad an idea this really is (and the fact that I’m annoyed at whatever’s going on with Ed) I say we hurry up and follow the idea to get one of the pieces: just one. We’ll just have to risk Mister A getting pissed at us in the name of the greater good.

Dryu just checked the threads and it seems that Zup is the closest to all possible echoes: he can get back to the train station under his own steam and hopefully won’t have any constraints to keep him from doing so. I’m going to email him about this, and see about asking him to go back to the Echo he found as soon as people have seen this, and I feel secure in doing it.

If Mister A gets pissed... well, I guess you’d better point him my way.

I think I may also wait until AFTER Joe has given his side of the story on the whole Ed-Is-No-Longer-An-Admin thing. Because you know, important.

Yeah, can't believe I greenlit the whole thing, either.

As I've said in the chat, I've realized my conflict: it's the conflict between my Meta metaguard self and Moral metaguard self. The former says that nothing will happen anyway and we should advance the plot (and let's be honest, it will advance anyway), and the latter hates the former's guts for that.

So yeah. Go ahead and get that piece. Just don't get carried away or I'll murder your donkey.
Don't forget that the reality is (not) at stake.

I say go for it. While we certainly should take our time to find all the pieces and only fix the wall completely when we're sure it's time, I think getting started now might be just what we need. It took long enough to gather all the Echoes we have. Even if we did say "All right, everybody go out and find the wall pieces," I'm pretty sure we would wind up finding one and getting a chance to discuss it and regroup before anybody found the others. So even if I did think we should just grab them all at once, we would probably wind up doing it this way, just through practicality.

Scarab wrote:
I’m sorry but I am going to have to go meta here: The refics can only happen once enough echoes have been discovered for that character, and each one has a set time limit during which it HAS to occur. We can’t just do them all at once. But gathering the wall pieces could happen at any time and then the game would end (at which point the world is either doomed or not doomed.)

So...with this in mind, the theory buzzing around about us being deliberately segregated into two groups, one finding pieces for the Cabal and one for Mister A, doesn't make sense, at this point because the piece gatherers would be done before the reficcers could even get halfway there. Presumably the GM’s planned for this and there’s something that will happen if we gather all the pieces. But whatever the case we know that this CANNOT end the game.

You're forgetting, we're not going after the pieces. We're going after notes. These notes are supposedly left by Mr. A's agents and will reveal new locations for the pieces. And we don't know what we'll have to do once those new locations are revealed. It's possible that there's something else we'd have to do after finding the notes. Just like we needed to find the echoes before we can start reficking, finding the notes may just be the prerequisite for a more complicated task. But we won't know until we find the first note.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:You're forgetting, we're not going after the pieces. We're going after notes. These notes are supposedly left by Mr. A's agents and will reveal new locations for the pieces. And we don't know what we'll have to do once those new locations are revealed. It's possible that there's something else we'd have to do after finding the notes. Just like we needed to find the echoes before we can start reficking, finding the notes may just be the prerequisite for a more complicated task. But we won't know until we find the first note.

That's true. But if the notes lead to the pieces, and we put them on the forum, then the Cabal can see them, in which case the pieces are as good as found.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:You're forgetting, we're not going after the pieces. We're going after notes. These notes are supposedly left by Mr. A's agents and will reveal new locations for the pieces.

Not to mention that the pieces are technically owned by Mr. A, and apparently he can seal the wall anytime (at least, that's what I thought when he was gloating in his update). So, meta notwithstanding, finding the pieces is an explicit pro-Cabal activity.

Just to clarify yeah we're after the notes, and I think this may be the only way to get them.

I am NOT advocating betraying Mister A, in fact I'm still leaning towards his side in this, but I can't in good conscience do that without more information. This is just a test run, a single wall piece to find out if anymore info can be obtained.

Dryunya wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:You're forgetting, we're not going after the pieces. We're going after notes. These notes are supposedly left by Mr. A's agents and will reveal new locations for the pieces.

Not to mention that the pieces are technically owned by Mr. A, and apparently he can seal the wall anytime (at least, that's what I thought when he was gloating in his update). So, meta notwithstanding, finding the pieces is an explicit pro-Cabal activity.

Is Mister really in control of sealing the wall, though? If he were in control of them why is he so worried about them being nstantly reintegrated after we find them? (heck how WOULD finding them instantly reintegrate them, anyway? How does that even work?)

Scarab wrote:(heck how WOULD finding them instantly reintegrate them, anyway? How does that even work?)

Have you ever seen a Power Up in your life?

Scarab wrote:Is Mister really in control of sealing the wall, though? If he were in control of them why is he so worried about them being nstantly reintegrated after we find them? (heck how WOULD finding them instantly reintegrate them, anyway? How does that even work?)

Because he doesn't want the wall to be repaired until AFTER all the fictionals have been returned, and that includes the Cabal. The Cabal want to fix the wall, thus trapping themselves here.

Dryunya wrote:

Scarab wrote:(heck how WOULD finding them instantly reintegrate them, anyway? How does that even work?)

Have you ever seen a Power Up in your life?

...You mean like that thing, when mario eats the stars or mushrooms and things? I am having a hard time picturing Mister A chasing mushrooms through a pixellated 2D landscape and gobbling down mushrooms.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Because he doesn't want the wall to be repaired until AFTER all the fictionals have been returned, and that includes the Cabal. The Cabal want to fix the wall, thus trapping themselves here.

But my question remains: why CAN'T he control the wall pieces? II would've thought a being of the fourth wall would have that kind of ability... I mean he's the one who's going to use them to fix the wall later, rght? or is that us too?

Scarab wrote:...You mean like that thing, when mario eats the stars or mushrooms and things? I am having a hard time picturing Mister A chasing mushrooms through a pixellated 2D landscape and gobbling down mushrooms.

I'll have to photoshop this now, I hope you realize that.

Dryunya wrote:

Scarab wrote:...You mean like that thing, when mario eats the stars or mushrooms and things? I am having a hard time picturing Mister A chasing mushrooms through a pixellated 2D landscape and gobbling down mushrooms.

I'll have to photoshop this now, I hope you realize that.

I was kind of hoping you would. Do it, and ya get Gurts.

I continue my ridiculous streak of missing all the good shit. What is the point of even being part of this ARG.

Anyway, I support the idea, being an original proponent of it. Who is relatively close to each location? It's important that only one person goes for it.

If everyone agrees that we should check one of the locations, then, by all means do it. I don't know if this will acomplish anything to our cause, but I guess it won't hurt (too much) to try, or maybe it will, but apparently this is another way to move the plot along so let's just see what happens...

Zup got back to me, he's unable to head for his own wall piece.

That means we have to rely on somebody else. Who else amongst the Metaknights can return to their Echo Layar?

First, the echoes in question:
London
San-Francisco
Los-Angeles (obtained by the Cabal)
Baltimore
New York (I may be wrong on this one - it has a guy in a suit, but there are 2 more echoes, which don't seem to have anything).

The wall piece at the Los Angeles location is gone. Otherwise I'd go back there for you.

I actually have no issues with this course of action, as long as we only find just ONE, then decide where to go from there. We get necessary data, so... science. Yay...

Sorry, I'm just tired right now.

Just go back to all the places where all the echoes had Mr. A faces and things, and pick them up. For starters, go to the library Romeo and Juliet were in.

*Sigh*

I haven't seen the chatroom discussion that prompted this yet, so if I need to make a retraction once I do, I apologize.

Going Meta now:

To be honest, on a meta level I recognize that this is the plot-advancement we're being pushed toward, and am interested in seeing the letters and finding out what happens when we go after it, in an obsessive-personality kind of way.

But we're not watching this unfold like the readers of a book. We're players; we're a part of this, so I have to play as me. And as a Metaguard, I cannot see this idea as anything but a dangerous, possibly fatal distraction from our tasks of real importance, and I cannot really condone it.

However, since I'm not in a position to go after any of the wall pieces personally anyway, my disapproval is functionally irrelevant.

You know what? Since there's nothing I can do, I'm just going to withdraw from the debate now. There's more I'll say about that once I'm more fully caught up.

London in a no-go. Zup is laid down with coursework and can't get to the station. That leaves four more... Sicon was quite close to his, correct?

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:*Sigh*
I haven't seen the chatroom discussion that prompted this yet, so if I need to make a retraction once I do, I apologize.
Going Meta now:
To be honest, on a meta level I recognize that this is the plot-advancement we're being pushed toward, and am interested in seeing the letters and finding out what happens when we go after it, in an obsessive-personality kind of way.
But we're not watching this unfold like the readers of a book. We're players; we're a part of this, so I have to play as me. And as a Metaguard, I cannot see this idea as anything but a dangerous, possibly fatal distraction from our tasks of real importance, and I cannot really condone it.
However, since I'm not in a position to go after any of the wall pieces personally anyway, my disapproval is functionally irrelevant.
You know what? Since there's nothing I can do, I'm just going to withdraw from the debate now. There's more I'll say about that once I'm more fully caught up.

I know, Qara. Thanks for being honest, I get it, and to be equally honest in return I think it's a crazy idea even though I SUGGESTED it. But SOMEBODY had to make this desicion sooner or later, somebody had to take a step, no matter what that step was. I... figure if it was me, then that takes a bit of the heat off the rest of you. You can have the results of the experiment, which might help us, and nobody all that important -i.e. nobody he communicates with regularly or has any personal sway with him- has jeopardised their relationship with Mister A. (Course we have to find somebody to GO for a piece first.)

Try and trust me. You can be the first in line to whack me over the head with something heavy if all this goes horribly, horribly wrong.

I'm on your side, guys. Please don't doubt that.

Qara has suggested making a deal with the Cabal.

It does sound pretty ominous, but, well, it makes sense: considering that we're doing what they wanted, we might as well have something in return. So I say do it - it benefits us more than not doing it.

UPD: ...though that requires us to be able to drop the retrieval plan entirely if they don't agree to the deal. Otherwise, they have no benefit from agreeing to it, either.

Dryunya wrote:Qara has suggested making a deal with the Cabal.

It does sound pretty ominous, but, well, it makes sense: considering that we're doing what they wanted, we might as well have something in return. So I say do it - it benefits us more than not doing it.

UPD: ...though that requires us to be able to drop the retrieval plan entirely if they don't agree to the deal. Otherwise, they have no benefit from agreeing to it, either.

I think dropping the plan is always a possibility, due to the nature of it, right (assuming we're talking about the same plan here?)

Agreeing to recover ONE wall piece is in no way an agreement that we're going to go afterthe REST of them, it's just a stab in the dark of gathering information. Of course if the information we're seeking were to be discovered as available in some OTHER way the plan wouldn't even be required. I only suggested it because I don't think there's any other option at this point that would yield concrete information.

The vital point of diplomacy is recipricocity, and we are being perhaps slightly vague on what they'll get in return. All I can say to them is we will try to HELP them with our limited power, and all we can give now is trust.

On the wall pieces:

Sicon112 wrote:I actually have no issues with this course of action, as long as we only find just ONE, then decide where to go from there. We get necessary data, so... science. Yay...

Sorry, I'm just tired right now.

This.
I have no moral problems with obtaining a wall piece, and I sort of think we HAVE to. Has anyone tried contacting GuestBatman17?

H22 wrote:The vital point of diplomacy is recipricocity, and we are being perhaps slightly vague on what they'll get in return. All I can say to them is we will try to HELP them with our limited power, and all we can give now is trust.

On the wall pieces:

Sicon112 wrote:I actually have no issues with this course of action, as long as we only find just ONE, then decide where to go from there. We get necessary data, so... science. Yay...

Sorry, I'm just tired right now.

This.
I have no moral problems with obtaining a wall piece, and I sort of think we HAVE to. Has anyone tried contacting GuestBatman17?

yeah science is... pretty much what I was going for. At least to see what the heck happens.
Is there some suspicion that GuestUser17 is actually a PM as well as Batman? Because he just seems to keep cropping up in highly convenient places...