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Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:32 am
by Genndy Oda C.O.G.
Does Adam even want to be refictionalized yet?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:42 am
by narrativedilettante
Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Does Adam even want to be refictionalized yet?


We're not sure how much he understands about where/what he is. Even the concept of refictionalization might be a bit extreme at the moment. We should probably move toward it gradually through comments on his blog.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:45 am
by Pixelmage
The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 am
by Scarab
Pixelmage wrote:The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.


I agree that it's a possible card that can be played but... yeeeah. No.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 pm
by H22
Pixelmage wrote:The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.


I don't think the GMs are that naive. I'm with Scarab, it would be... Distinctly uncharming.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 pm
by Victin
We would have to send it to Sandy.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:14 pm
by H22
On a separate note, I wish to start introducing Adam to the idea (Clarification: That of his refictionalisation) Suggestions?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:57 pm
by Scarab
H22 wrote:On a separate note, I wish to start introducing Adam to the idea (Clarification: That of his refictionalisation) Suggestions?


Oh, lord, I really have no idea at this point. We have no idea where we'd be SENDING the guy... Maybe we should wait until we learn more?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:04 pm
by Genndy Oda C.O.G.
Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:05 pm
by Victin
Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?

yes. Say something like: "Research more for your play! Make references! Show that critics your guts!"

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:09 pm
by Qara-Xuan Zenith
Victin wrote:
Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?

yes. Say something like: "Research more for your play! Make references! Show that critics your guts!"


I'm not sure I like this idea.
But I don't want to get called out for stopping anyone, so... *shrug*

But it's a better idea to just ease him into a Sicon-speech or two, possibly rewritten and sent by me or Scarab, since we're the ones he trusts the most.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:15 pm
by Genndy Oda C.O.G.
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:But it's a better idea to just ease him into a Sicon-speech or two, possibly rewritten and sent by me or Scarab, since we're the ones he trusts the most.

That'll work.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:12 am
by H22
I second Qara and Genndy. Could we do it fairly... subtly, however?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:43 pm
by Dryunya
Now that Adam was refictionalized, Sandy made a final post on his blog (dunno how she got hold of the password, but with elephants ;) ).

First, HOLYSHITMORECATS. Dunno if she'll reply, but I've already made an inqury about their polydactyly. :gurt:
Second, that post shows that Shelley wasn't fictionalized, she was duplicated as a character. So, makes sense, I guess. But then, why can't we do the same with real people? :|

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 pm
by Qara-Xuan Zenith
Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:00 am
by WackyMeetsPractical
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:
Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.


I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 am
by narrativedilettante
Considering the inclusion of real people as characters in our refictionalization efforts, I can understand how it could cause problems. If handled well we might be able to get away with it, but if handled poorly it could cause plot holes or just take over the story with rationalizations. Shelley the fictional cat won't wonder where she came from or require a new and complicated backstory.

I am sad to learn that we can't fictionalize animals after all. But I'm glad that Shelley is safe in Sandy's care.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:05 am
by Sicon112
WackyMeetsPractical wrote:
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:
Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.


I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?


Biographies and such non-fiction are chronicles of events that already exist in our universe and our timeline, therefore they require no further representation. Any errors are handwaved because they are covered by the AUs that exist parallel to our world. Basing characters off of real people is not cloning because of course you don't make them exactly the same. The characters are unique in their own ways, which is what you are saying.

Yes, that is a theory, but it is the best one we have currently on this topic given the information we have. If anyone has an explanation for why there should be a SECOND instance of real events occurring, go ahead and share, because from what I know it makes very little sense. So far this has been specifically focused on fiction and has completely ignored any possibility of non-fiction involvement. Should that change, fine. However, it has not yet done so and we have no information pointing to it.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:24 pm
by H22
I can only embed 3 quotes :cry:

Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.[/quote]

I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?[/
Biographies and such non-fiction are chronicles of events that already exist in our universe and our timeline, therefore they require no further representation. Any errors are handwaved because they are covered by the AUs that exist parallel to our world. Basing characters off of real people is not cloning because of course you don't make them exactly the same. The characters are unique in their own ways, which is what you are saying.

Yes, that is a theory, but it is the best one we have currently on this topic given the information we have. If anyone has an explanation for why there should be a SECOND instance of real events occurring, go ahead and share, because from what I know it makes very little sense. So far this has been specifically focused on fiction and has completely ignored any possibility of non-fiction involvement. Should that change, fine. However, it has not yet done so and we have no information pointing to it.[/quote]

The Wall protects FICTIONAL characters/settings/tropes, not all creative work. But what about historical fiction? Where does that end up? (I've long wanted to know what happens to 'characters' in poetry, actually.)

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm
by Sicon112
What we suggested earlier is probably the best bet. Namely, that fiction set in a historical period is fiction, and badly done "historical" accounts are real, just covered in an AU. Or maybe they don't even count. Who knows. As to fictitious events/legends surrounding real people... probably some combination of the two. Something like goofy stories of Abraham Lincoln slaying zombies would be fiction, and works of fiction such as Julius Caesar, the play, are probably also fiction, as intended by their creators. A historical account of something that didn't happen, but is widely thought to HAVE happened is probably just AU territory again.

Re: Adam F

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:24 am
by H22
I suppose you almost need the mens rea to create fiction. For instance, if I wrote John Maynard Keynes was a carpenter who died in 1997 and had eighteen children, I don't intend to add to Beyond The Wall. (Shame on you, by the way; there's a demographic explosion.)