French

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French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:51 am

First off, sorry for all the complaints. I figured it was mostly a Canada-as-opposed-to-the-rest-of-the-world thing, even though people rarely believe me when I say that Quebec French is extremely different from everyone else's, hilarious swearing notwithstanding. I just got complainey in order to cope. But...

I have to know (as does my mom, who helped me with the first bout of translation, and was bugging me to ask)... Did I translate Poirot's French messages correctly? slash can we have confirmation of what his message was?
Why are we even arguing about a dead fictional dude and hypothetical ninjas?

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Re: French

Postby Dana on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:54 am

Hey, people in Quebec say avoir de fun instead of s'amuser. That tells me all I need to know ;P
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Re: French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:04 am

J'ai beaucoup de fun pendant le week-end. 8-)
Why are we even arguing about a dead fictional dude and hypothetical ninjas?

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Re: French

Postby Dana on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:05 am

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:J'ai beaucoup de fun pendant le week-end. 8-)


AUGH

YOU ARE KILLING ME
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Re: French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:09 am

If my Quebec French pains you that much, you could always punish me by swearing at me in it, calling me, for example, an "estie de cave", or simply declaring "tabernak!"
:lol:
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Re: French

Postby JackAlsworth on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:09 am

Qara, arrêter de tuer Dana, c'est impoli.

I used Google Translate for that, so feel free to mock the shit out of my grammar.
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Re: French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:14 am

You may have killed her further with that. At least my French is legitimate somewhere. :P

Et quelle est la probleme avec mon francais? C'est cool.
...yet another word that is inexplicably a part of Quebec French, flying in the face of logic, and the existence of the word chouette.
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:16 am

Well, for the recording segment you got of the Mme. Widdecombe case, you have to give me time to dig up the script. That was recorded months ago; I'd have to go over and see what specifically was said. Though you did more or less get the gist of it.

The confrontation between Poirot and Sweeney (my favorite of the batch... it really felt like Tom and I were facing off against each other, and I knew we were thousands of miles apart), you did an impressive job on, more or less getting everything said (and some of it was deliberately muttered... I promise it made sense). This despite the fact that I was choking myself during the part where Sweeney had Poirot at his mercy (fun fact - I bruised my neck from that scene; the other puppet masters were impressed/worried that I'd go that far for the part).

The final quote was the one that was off the most. It was also the one I was a bit boggled by. Remember how you really questioned the grammar in that one? That was a quote from Molière. Specifically, it's the fourth-to-last and third-to-last lines of Le Tartuffe.

"Puis, acquittés un peu de ce premier devoir,
Aux justes soins d’un autre il nous faudra pourvoir."

You got the gist of the idea behind the quote, but you got most of the specific wording wrong. Since all of Molière's work is public domain, and there's at least one English translation that also is, I trust that folks can Google for themselves to see a closer translation.

Brief amount of story about the quote. Raikes and I were bouncing things off of each other, because we were writing the final Poirot script about an hour or two before I had to record it (and while Sicon was already starting on recording his lines; we were, as mentioned, pinched for time). Raikes in particular wanted a quote from classic French literature for Poirot's last lines, and he didn't exactly need to work hard to convince me on that one. However, he originally wanted to quote from Cyrano de Bergerac's death speech. The problem I found is that it was either not really fitting or actually insulting towards the person he was addressing. That wouldn't do at all, particularly as Poirot did appreciate Sicon (Poirot went to the finale because of more than to prevent a murder).

Pulling from Molière was a natural choice for me, because I took a course devoted solely to his work in college (my advisor was a Molière scholar). I picked Le Tartuffe because it ends with justice being done, after an investigation no less (the duty that the first quoted line refers to was proving a man's innocence after being framed by Tartuffe). Plus, seeing as Molière has a reputation in the French language similar to Shakespeare in English, and Le Tartuffe is considered one of his best plays, it was a perfect convergence as to something that Poirot would know and be ready to quote.
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:17 am

Also, for the record... it feels like college all over again. The part where all of the comp sci majors made fun of my major.
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Re: French

Postby JackAlsworth on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:20 am

I'm still a little bitter because I was trying to transcribe the English bits of those recordings, and his accent was nearly impenetrable at points (it took me about thirty seconds to process that "see-cone" meant Sicon).

I can understand bits of French because my dad lived there when he was young and he retained some of it, but I can't speak any of it. (Well, unless you count "Il sont fous, ces Romains!", but that's just 'cause of comics. :P).

Rick Healey wrote:Also, for the record... it feels like college all over again. The part where all of the comp sci majors made fun of my major.


Your major was cool. I'm not sure what it was, but it probably helped you make this game, and the game was cool, so by extension...
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Re: French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:25 am

Thank you.
:oops: :oops: ...It is easy for me to forget that it is probably only in Quebec French that the primary meaning of 'devoir' is 'homework'. That may have been what inspired my mother's comment about the really strange grammar/word choice.
ahahhahahahahahahahahaha.
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:25 am

JackAlsworth wrote:I'm still a little bitter because I was trying to transcribe the English bits of those recordings, and his accent was nearly impenetrable at points (it took me about thirty seconds to process that "see-cone" meant Sicon).


I deliberately laid it on thick, because Poirot canonically does that, according to the original novels. I knew that it'd drive people nuts, and I thought about it... then remembered that I'm a puppet master, and I *live* for that.

JackAlsworth wrote:Your major was cool. I'm not sure what it was, but it probably helped you make this game, and the game was cool, so by extension...


I actually stated it a few times in other spots in the forums, including my intro post. There's also a hint in the above wall o' text - the only people who would have an advisor that's a Molière scholar would be either a theater major or a French major. And in my case, it was the latter.
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:30 am

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:Thank you.
:oops: :oops: ...It is easy for me to forget that it is probably only in Quebec French that the primary meaning of 'devoir' is 'homework'. That may have been what inspired my mother's comment about the really strange grammar/word choice.
ahahhahahahahahahahahaha.


Technically speaking, "les devoirs" (always pluralized) is the mainland France way of saying "homework" as well. It's just that, in this case, it's singular. Plus, it's really only "homework" if the context is clearly a school setting. Still, the most common meaning for the noun form of "devoir" is "duty" (man, the French are hardcore about making sure you do your assignments). I take it that Quebecois has a different word for "duty."
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:38 am

JackAlsworth wrote:Qara, arrêter de tuer Dana, c'est impoli.

I used Google Translate for that, so feel free to mock the shit out of my grammar.


Well, if you insist...

The proper French way of saying that is "Qara, arrêtez-vous de tuer Dana, c'est impolie." Unless the subject of the sentence is trying to stop a third party from doing something, "arrêter" is always reflexive; it's even listed in dictionaries in its infinitive form as "s'arrêter". You have to then conjugate it properly to be the second-person polite imperative form, as listed above. Finally, since we don't want to be impersonal, we have to note that Qara is the one potentially being rude here. Since I don't want to take a shot in the drinking game, we must note that Qara is female, and since all adjectives in French inflect based on gender, we must use the feminine form of the adjective.
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Re: French

Postby JackAlsworth on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:44 am

Merci! I feel smarter already.

I just remembered I also have some other bits and pieces I absorbed when I was in a school production of A Doctor in Spite of Himself
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Re: French

Postby Genndy Oda C.O.G. on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:50 pm

:| This is why I just want to master Esperanto.
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Re: French

Postby Sicon112 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:51 pm

Rick Healey wrote:
JackAlsworth wrote:Qara, arrêter de tuer Dana, c'est impoli.

I used Google Translate for that, so feel free to mock the shit out of my grammar.


Well, if you insist...

The proper French way of saying that is "Qara, arrêtez-vous de tuer Dana, c'est impolie." Unless the subject of the sentence is trying to stop a third party from doing something, "arrêter" is always reflexive; it's even listed in dictionaries in its infinitive form as "s'arrêter". You have to then conjugate it properly to be the second-person polite imperative form, as listed above. Finally, since we don't want to be impersonal, we have to note that Qara is the one potentially being rude here. Since I don't want to take a shot in the drinking game, we must note that Qara is female, and since all adjectives in French inflect based on gender, we must use the feminine form of the adjective.


The only reason that made any sense at all to me is because I take Latin. I KNEW that would come in handy eventually!
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Re: French

Postby Connor Raikes on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:10 pm

Rick Healey wrote:
JackAlsworth wrote:Qara, arrêter de tuer Dana, c'est impoli.

I used Google Translate for that, so feel free to mock the shit out of my grammar.


Well, if you insist...

The proper French way of saying that is "Qara, arrêtez-vous de tuer Dana, c'est impolie." Unless the subject of the sentence is trying to stop a third party from doing something, "arrêter" is always reflexive; it's even listed in dictionaries in its infinitive form as "s'arrêter". You have to then conjugate it properly to be the second-person polite imperative form, as listed above. Finally, since we don't want to be impersonal, we have to note that Qara is the one potentially being rude here. Since I don't want to take a shot in the drinking game, we must note that Qara is female, and since all adjectives in French inflect based on gender, we must use the feminine form of the adjective.


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Re: French

Postby Connor Fallon on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:13 pm

I was very concerned about Raikes' sanity at certain points when he was writing Poirot. Every time he wrote something small in french and we made him run it by Rick, I think he probably grayed a little.

As was just demonstrated, it was very frustrating for him, especially when he had an awesome post to make.
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:15 pm

Yeah, Raikes heard way more about French grammar and spelling than he ever thought he would. And certainly more than he ever wanted to hear.
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Re: French

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:31 pm

Ah, but it's a good thing he did, or I may have thrown a tantrum about how Poirot's French is suspicious and therefore he is CLEARLY MORIARTY IN DISGUISE. :geek:
:roll:
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Re: French

Postby Rick Healey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:37 pm

There were a couple cases where a post had to be changed, and I wasn't immediately available (usually at work). This resulted in me surreptitiously logging in and doing a drive-by edit in the hopes that I caught the errors before any player did.

EDIT: And the important thing to get from this entire exchange is that editors are important - they work hard to make sure that the writer's work is appreciated to its fullest extent with a minimum of distractions. That said, it's not always an easy process for either the writer or the editor. :gurt:
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