Agent X's letter

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Agent X's letter

Postby Adell on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:17 pm

Mr.A, I have found the letter you were apprehensive about us finding, and I can understand why after reading it.

"Dear sir,

I have travelled to all of the locations you indicated and taken measurements using the device you have provided me. I still am not entirely sure what it measures, or why I have to keep pouring lime yoghurt into it, but no matter. Regardless, there have been no reactions at any of the locations.

Along with taking measurements I have followed your requests to observe the behaviour of anyone who spends time close to the locations. Whilst I have witnessed a variety of mundane interactions, there has been no untoward behaviour exhibited by anyone.

In short, regardless of geographic location both the measurements and my observations have yielded no results indicating that there is any activity of interest. If you are seeking some kind of disturbance that is related to these particular places, I am afraid that my travels have failed to yield the evidence you are seeking. There is no sign of anything other than stability here.

Have you obtained other data about this "collapse" you fear? If so, it is not corroborated by what I have investigated.


I am logging this from the most geographically remote location you indicated, after which I shall be travelling east to continue with the other task you have assigned me. However, this may take one or two additional days as I have become concerned that I am being followed. As a precaution, I will set this message to be accessible from all of the locations using our agreed-upon visual analysis tool.

Yours,

Agent X

P.S. You are going to comp my travel, correct? I have run up a considerable margin. Please let me know how we can go about reimbursing me. Thank you."


What this is implying...what I think I'm reading here; we want some explanations. Now. I know we only got this cause the Cabal fed it to us, but you admitted to its existence so we know it's legit...it's time to explain yourself.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Scarab on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Well I do beleve things just went to hell in a metaphorical handbasket.


Okay so it seems this has all come back to the issue we’ve had all along

Until now we’ve been forced to operate under the assumption that mister A is telling the truth –that the fictional in our world will actively destroy our reality. We couldn’t RISK disagreeing with him because if we were wrong and he was being genuine, reality goes kaboom and we’re all done for. We’ve all asked ffor more evidence of course, but as of yet it has not been provided with anything more than just the Echoes (which have an effect on our world but are not necessarily damaging per se).

But now we have actual evidence that perhaps mister A has been lying to us. There ARE no cracks in the wall.

He’s not telling the truth about SOMETHING, we figured that much, but we can’t be sure what right now. If there are no cracks in the wall, then it is not falling, and the character being here is NOT causing the damage we were told it is.

So long as the wall IS actually falling, as Mister A proclaimed... then he’s in the right. He should have given us more info, true, but so long as there IS a threat posed from the fictionals (and we at least know there's an EFFECT) then following Mister A;s instructions was the right thing to do

But if he’s lying? Then everything just changed and we may have been totally misled.

There’s also the other question we must ask: is this Agent X anymore trustworthy than Mister A? could they be working with the Cabal?

Time to start asking questions. Also, time for a cuppa...
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Adell on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Scarab wrote:Well I do beleve things just went to hell in a metaphorical handbasket.


Okay so it seems this has all come back to the issue we’ve had all along

Until now we’ve been forced to operate under the assumption that mister A is telling the truth –that the fictional in our world will actively destroy our reality. We couldn’t RISK disagreeing with him because if we were wrong and he was being genuine, reality goes kaboom and we’re all done for. We’ve all asked ffor more evidence of course, but as of yet it has not been provided with anything more than just the Echoes (which have an effect on our world but are not necessarily damaging per se).

But now we have actual evidence that perhaps mister A has been lying to us. There ARE no cracks in the wall.

He’s not telling the truth about SOMETHING, we figured that much, but we can’t be sure what right now. If there are no cracks in the wall, then it is not falling, and the character being here is NOT causing the damage we were told it is.

So long as the wall IS actually falling, as Mister A proclaimed... then he’s in the right. He should have given us more info, true, but so long as there IS a threat posed from the fictionals (and we at least know there's an EFFECT) then following Mister A;s instructions was the right thing to do

But if he’s lying? Then everything just changed and we may have been totally misled.

There’s also the other question we must ask: is this Agent X anymore trustworthy than Mister A? could they be working with the Cabal?

Time to start asking questions. Also, time for a cuppa...


I would question the bottom thing about Agent X if Mr.A didn't already admit to the letters existence and the research relating to it. Agent X is working for A.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Victin on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:29 pm

I believe that the wall is different than we thought and/or than what Mr. Cake led us to believe. For me, the wall is some kind of small portal, or maybe even an window. It was broken by someone/something, and it scattered, by accident or by the sheer power of breaking, through the worlds. For some reason, instead of just picking up the pieces, Mr. A sent X to watch over them, and also to keep him informed about Echoes and "soft spots".

On the letter, we must first check the veracity of Agent X and who s/he is. I'm theoring:
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Scarab on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:29 pm

Adell wrote:I would question the bottom thing about Agent X if Mr.A didn't already admit to the letters existence and the research relating to it. Agent X is working for A.


...So this is an Independent agent of Mister A, who perhaps told A info which A does not want to give us? Either because it will 'prove' he's lying, or it will make it LOOK as if he's lying. And being Mister A, and therefore sucking at communication, he's just deciding hiding the info or discouraging us from believing it was the best choice...

I am pretty much freaking out over the prospect of a Broken Base here, guys. I really don't want us to fight. If we fight now this may all fall apart. This uncertainty is dangerous and worrying :(.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Adell on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Scarab wrote:
Adell wrote:I would question the bottom thing about Agent X if Mr.A didn't already admit to the letters existence and the research relating to it. Agent X is working for A.


...So this is an Independent agent of Mister A, who perhaps told A info which A does not want to give us? Either because it will 'prove' he's lying, or it will make it LOOK as if he's lying. And being Mister A, and therefore sucking at communication, he's just deciding hiding the info or discouraging us from believing it was the best choice...

I am pretty much freaking out over the prospect of a Broken Base here, guys. I really don't want us to fight. If we fight now this may all fall apart. This uncertainty is dangerous and worrying :(.


That's not gonna happen.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Krika on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:52 pm

Not planning on deviating from the plan of sending them back, not swaying from that goal.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Scarab on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:08 pm

Krika wrote:Not planning on deviating from the plan of sending them back, not swaying from that goal.


Either way, contacted Mister A on Twitter, let's see what he has to say.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Sicon112 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:24 pm

To those who seem to be saying that "the wall isn't breaking" this letter doesn't have anything to do with that, I believe. It seems quite obvious that the wall is indeed breaking. Otherwise where are all of the fictionals from? The wall is also breaking on a world scale. Pieces of it connecting to massively separate places have been blown into our world, leaving gaps through which fictionals are appearing. This isn't what this letter is about.

Worst case scenario: Mr. A has been lying to us this whole time. "Echoes" as we understood them do not exist and they have been fabricated by Mr. A in order to force us into moving as he wishes. However, I don't think this is the case. At least, i do not believe it likely. I reserve all judgement, as should you, until Mr. A speaks.

Best case scenario, something was wrong with the device or with Mr. A's theories at the time and the detection was unsuccessful because of some miscalculation. Mr. A has implied this was the case, saying the letter was written with old data. People working in the R&J situation should have been recently acquainted with what that can cause. Jester acted on old data and found himself directly at odds with us. Again, however, I will reserve judgement for now.

The evidence has been presented, and it is now Mr. A's turn to defend his position. Once I have more information to work with, I'll let you all know where I stand. With the information I now possess, I cannot be sure of the correct path, though I will say that I find the idea that echoes are a total fabrication very unlikely. Echoes are SOMETHING. Otherwise, they would not have been able to predict/display actual events and they would not have led the Cabal to a wall piece. Also, they are an integral part of the Refic process, which, in the cases of Cinderella and, more recently, Todd, has been shown to WORK. Is Mr. A then giving them an unneeded level of complexity? That seems like an odd, though not entirely impossible action.

As with many issues, I think the solution will lie somewhere in between the two radical extremes, and at the moment I find the second option slightly more likely.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby JRPictures on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:10 pm

I'm not sure what to make of this. I'll wait til we get further info. But colour me confused
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby narrativedilettante on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:21 pm

Theory: Agent X was conducting research on behalf of Mr. A that could have demonstrated that the broken wall/presence of fictionals is actively damaging our reality. Since Agent X found no evidence of damage, Mr. A decided not to tell us this because it hurts his cause. This is Bad Science, but people do that kind of thing all the time, withholding evidence that doesn't support their viewpoint. It reflects badly on Mr. A but isn't necessarily evidence that he's lying or trying to get us to do something harmful.

It's conceivable that the situation has changed, as Mr. A mentioned old data. Perhaps the damage has become measurable in the meantime.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Sicon112 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:23 pm

narrativedilettante wrote:Theory: Agent X was conducting research on behalf of Mr. A that could have demonstrated that the broken wall/presence of fictionals is actively damaging our reality. Since Agent X found no evidence of damage, Mr. A decided not to tell us this because it hurts his cause. This is Bad Science, but people do that kind of thing all the time, withholding evidence that doesn't support their viewpoint. It reflects badly on Mr. A but isn't necessarily evidence that he's lying or trying to get us to do something harmful.

It's conceivable that the situation has changed, as Mr. A mentioned old data. Perhaps the damage has become measurable in the meantime.


This is pretty much what I was saying, Dilly. So yeah, both are possible, but the first should need further explanation, since the existence of echoes and how we have been using them doesn't quite add into it. I think SOMETHING is up, but I'm not quite sure what yet.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby WackyMeetsPractical on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:41 pm

This entire issue has always been a non-issue for me. Let's just please look at the facts.

1) We do not necessarily need evidence that reality is going to collapse to know that sending the fictionals back is the right thing to do. I have said this many times. Just the possibility that reality may collapse is enough to inform us that this is right.
2) The letter does not prove that reality isn't collapsing. Like Mr. A said, an absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Just because there's no proof right now that reality isn't collapsing, does not necessarily mean that reality isn't collapsing.
3) The letter does not prove that the wall isn't cracking. Of course the wall is cracking. What does the Cabal have if it isn't a piece of the broken wall? Surely, we haven't seen this for ourself, and all we're going on is Mr. A's word that the Cabal stole the piece, but looking at how much he had been freaking out over it, do you really believe he just made it up. And as someone already said, the fictionals are already through. So something happened to the wall.
4) The letter does not prove that Mr. A had been lying. We knew for a long time that Mr. A had no proof that reality is collapsing. He's admitted it himself. This letter only shows that there is no additional proof, which Mr. A never claimed to have, so no lie there. If anything, the letter proves that Mr. A is trying to find proof for us. He sent agent X to these locations based on Pan's theories assuming that there's a good chance that evidence would be there. But it failed. You can't blame a guy for trying and failing. Instead, we should be thankful that he put in the effort for us.

Conclusion: The letter doesn't give us any new information regarding the condition of the wall or reality or the damaging effects of the fictionals presence here. Basically, we're back to square one. Nothing was lost or gained from this. So let's stop freaking out, okay?

One thing we do know is that Mr. A is trying. Agent X had been sent on another mission, probably another fact finding mission in search of evidence. So we should be happy. Mr. A is listening to us and trying to appease our ridiculous demands.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Genndy Oda C.O.G. on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:38 am

Honestly, I hope that Mr. Administrator pulls through with an explanation.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby TheJester on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:42 am

Wait a minute... Could it be? Am I right? Was I right?

OH MY FREAKING GOD YES I WAS RIGHT! I BET YOU HE HAS LIED THE WHOLE TIME!

I better get an explanation out of this. I knew this would happen I freaking knew it. I just knew it.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby JRPictures on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:35 am

TheJester wrote:Wait a minute... Could it be? Am I right? Was I right?

OH MY FREAKING GOD YES I WAS RIGHT! I BET YOU HE HAS LIED THE WHOLE TIME!

I better get an explanation out of this. I knew this would happen I freaking knew it. I just knew it.

I wouldn't celebrate completely yet until we get the full story Jester.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby WackyMeetsPractical on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:56 am

TheJester wrote:Wait a minute... Could it be? Am I right? Was I right?

OH MY FREAKING GOD YES I WAS RIGHT! I BET YOU HE HAS LIED THE WHOLE TIME!

I better get an explanation out of this. I knew this would happen I freaking knew it. I just knew it.


If anything, the letter has actually confirmed Mr. A's story. He's been telling us for quite some time now that there was no concrete evidence that the wall cracking was going to cause any catastrophe in our world. And all this letter proves is that there is no concrete evidence that the wall cracking is causing any catastrophe in this world. Thus, no lies.

Just keep in mind what Mr. A was trying to tell us when we first found out that there was a letter at these statues, that a lack of evidence doesn't equal evidence that there is nothing wrong.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Terrac1 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:31 am

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:This entire issue has always been a non-issue for me. Let's just please look at the facts.

1) We do not necessarily need evidence that reality is going to collapse to know that sending the fictionals back is the right thing to do. I have said this many times. Just the possibility that reality may collapse is enough to inform us that this is right.
2) The letter does not prove that reality isn't collapsing. Like Mr. A said, an absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Just because there's no proof right now that reality isn't collapsing, does not necessarily mean that reality isn't collapsing.
3) The letter does not prove that the wall isn't cracking. Of course the wall is cracking. What does the Cabal have if it isn't a piece of the broken wall? Surely, we haven't seen this for ourself, and all we're going on is Mr. A's word that the Cabal stole the piece, but looking at how much he had been freaking out over it, do you really believe he just made it up. And as someone already said, the fictionals are already through. So something happened to the wall.
4) The letter does not prove that Mr. A had been lying. We knew for a long time that Mr. A had no proof that reality is collapsing. He's admitted it himself. This letter only shows that there is no additional proof, which Mr. A never claimed to have, so no lie there. If anything, the letter proves that Mr. A is trying to find proof for us. He sent agent X to these locations based on Pan's theories assuming that there's a good chance that evidence would be there. But it failed. You can't blame a guy for trying and failing. Instead, we should be thankful that he put in the effort for us.

Conclusion: The letter doesn't give us any new information regarding the condition of the wall or reality or the damaging effects of the fictionals presence here. Basically, we're back to square one. Nothing was lost or gained from this. So let's stop freaking out, okay?

One thing we do know is that Mr. A is trying. Agent X had been sent on another mission, probably another fact finding mission in search of evidence. So we should be happy. Mr. A is listening to us and trying to appease our ridiculous demands.


This sums up pretty much everything I had to say. It doesn't really matter if Mr. A was lying or not the objective still and always has been to send back the fictionals and their seems to be no reason to change that based on this evidence. In fact if anything we need to wok faster as one of our major barging chips for convincing fictionals that they have to leave (no point in staying if the multiverse explodes) has been compromised (not that any of them have seemed to care much anyway). Also this is just a gut feeling but from looking over what Mr. A has said about the mufti dimensional collapse I don't feel that he was lying just misinformed.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby S_o_S on Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:16 am

According to Twitter, Mr. A is having a CAPTCHA issue with the forums, but has posted his thoughts there.

https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby narrativedilettante on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:49 am

Based on Mr. A's Twitter info:

As we suspected might be the case, he was trying to gather evidence and there was nothing conclusive. Since an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as noted above, Mr. A's story about reality collapsing is still just as possible as it was before; it just hasn't been confirmed.
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby The Wild West Pyro on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:15 pm

Adell wrote:Mr.A, I have found the letter you were apprehensive about us finding, and I can understand why after reading it.

"Dear sir,

I have travelled to all of the locations you indicated and taken measurements using the device you have provided me. I still am not entirely sure what it measures, or why I have to keep pouring lime yoghurt into it, but no matter. Regardless, there have been no reactions at any of the locations.

Along with taking measurements I have followed your requests to observe the behaviour of anyone who spends time close to the locations. Whilst I have witnessed a variety of mundane interactions, there has been no untoward behaviour exhibited by anyone.

In short, regardless of geographic location both the measurements and my observations have yielded no results indicating that there is any activity of interest. If you are seeking some kind of disturbance that is related to these particular places, I am afraid that my travels have failed to yield the evidence you are seeking. There is no sign of anything other than stability here.

Have you obtained other data about this "collapse" you fear? If so, it is not corroborated by what I have investigated.


I am logging this from the most geographically remote location you indicated, after which I shall be travelling east to continue with the other task you have assigned me. However, this may take one or two additional days as I have become concerned that I am being followed. As a precaution, I will set this message to be accessible from all of the locations using our agreed-upon visual analysis tool.

Yours,

Agent X

P.S. You are going to comp my travel, correct? I have run up a considerable margin. Please let me know how we can go about reimbursing me. Thank you."


What this is implying...what I think I'm reading here; we want some explanations. Now. I know we only got this cause the Cabal fed it to us, but you admitted to its existence so we know it's legit...it's time to explain yourself.


Oh bloody hell.. this is one gigantic twist in this ARG.

So if the Fourth Wall's not cracking, what's making the characters come through?

However, I'll be keeping Mr. A on my friends list. Let's wait and see his tweets.

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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Scarab on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:21 pm

narrativedilettante wrote:Based on Mr. A's Twitter info:

As we suspected might be the case, he was trying to gather evidence and there was nothing conclusive. Since an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as noted above, Mr. A's story about reality collapsing is still just as possible as it was before; it just hasn't been confirmed.


Which means it's highly likely that what we actually have here is yet another instance of Not Being Able To Communicate properly with those guys on the Wall. The way they reacted to the letter initially made us more suspicious as to the letters actual content, whereas outright honesty from the start would've been... well, LESS likely to cause such a panic amongst certain members of us. Like me for example. Sorry guys.

I do wonder, though... We still have no direct evidence of what the total collapse of the wall will do, and that Not Knowing is probably a lot MORE disturbing that if we knew exactly whats going on. I mean heck, guys, Eldritch abominations? We can FIGHT Eldritch Abominations. We can (at least try to) HANDLE the results of the fiction we created. But how do we defend against the complete unknown?

...This is why they say Nothing Is Scarier, isn't it? :(
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Erik M Walton on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:01 pm

I warned you 'bout lovecraftian horrors bro. I TOLD YOU DOG! :shock:
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby Pixelmage on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:07 pm

Scarab wrote:...This is why they say Nothing Is Scarier, isn't it? :(

Pretty much. As long as you have a Cthulhu to shot at, you have a focal point. Useless as it may be, you have something to point out and define as "That's the enemy" or "That's the problem". Being in the dark and having no beacon to cling to on the other hand...
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Re: Agent X's letter

Postby paradisedj32 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:43 pm

i have been thinking... we are now shure that there is no evidence of reality collapsing, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Technicly nothing was gained or lost from this, but it leaves a HUGE ananwsered question:

How does Mr.A know realty is gonna collapse, if he has no evidence that it will? I have thought of a few ideas:

1.Shere pseudoscience and thickheadedness- Mr.A is convinced that the fictionals are hazardous to reality despite the near-complete lack of evidence to back it up, making him a very poor rationalist, simply hiding behind quotes like "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", failing to accept the burden of proof and pointing at the seemingly harmless achoes and shouting DOOM I SAY DOOM. Under such circumstances, Mr. A is actualy well meaning, but thickheadedness, bias and failing science have left him fighting for a false cause.

2. Seen it before- Mr. A has somehow, somewhere and/or when seen a fictional incursion into reality before, and seen both the damage they can do and that the signs of reality collapsing do nor show untill it actuly DOES collapse. He cannot provide evidence because it does not show untill too late, and speeks solely from experience. If so, "Agent X" is probably desperatly looking for any signs of the damage being visible before reality fails in order to convince others. If this is true, that we must complete reficitionalization, FAST.

3.all theoretical calculation: Mr.A's beliefe in the iminent collapse of reality is in its entierly based on complex theoretical calulations, something like predicting the chemical properties of things like ununoctium despite not being able to test them. Under such circumstances, not showing us evidence is understandable- who knows how complex it could be? If it is as such, "agent X" is again only thying to find solid proof to convince others. Such calculations can be somewhat accurate, but not 100%. If things turn out like this, i suggest continuing refictionalization, but such that we can slow or stop if new evidence comes.

4. LIES!- Mr. A is LYING,plain and simple, and either will personaly benefit from the elimination of the fictionals or is working for someone who would.The whole "reality collapsing" thing is just a lie to further his aims and make us pawns- we would have been had. He fails to give evidence because he HAS NONE. If we find this to be true, we better stop refictionalization, and start "digging".

5. Mr.A is has no ulterior motives. AND reality isn't collapsing NOR does he think it will. He is simply PREJUDICED against the fictionals, a paranoied reactionary, or something else of that sort. This whole thing would be an elaborate, made-up ruse to rope us all into his hate crime. I doubt this, bit it IS possible, however unlikely

....There may be more, but this is all I can think of. Of cource, we have no proof for ANY of this- this is all just mild speculation. They also have the potential to be intertwined. There may be some truth to all of them, or they mey all be false. All we can do is look out for more evidence and tread carefully with our attitudes and plans towards the fictionals.

Once again, I apologize if i have made a long-winded post for no reason, but I HAD this to say.
paradisedj32
 
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:42 am
Location: Istanbul, By way of a few places.

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