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has anyone entertained the idea that its not the fourth wall that is bleeding, but perhaps the second or third?

i'm not 100% sure we are not all fictional characters so I'm going to go dip my hand in paint thinners, if it melts then i must logically be drawn on something and this is an invasion angle, jealous literary characters wanting their audience back from .... whatever we are

has anyone entertained the idea that its not the fourth wall that is bleeding, but perhaps the second or third?

i'm not 100% sure we are not all fictional characters so I'm going to go dip my hand in paint thinners, if it melts then i must logically be drawn on something and this is an invasion angle, jealous literary characters wanting their audience back from .... whatever we are

Firstly welcome to the forum and epic icon ya got goin' on there.

secondly yes I'm sure we've considered this possibility somewhere and have basically reached the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. it's entirely possible we have no idea exactly where fiction ends and reality begins, but we're going to carry on doing what we're doing and acting as if we ARE the top layer of reality because trying to do anything else just breaks our brains and makes this even more complicated than it already is. Now is no time for the Tomato in the Mirror.

The idea of the invasion angle... I dunno, that's a possibility. Certainly we have characters here who are really not willing to go back to their worlds...

Theories on how they came:

Cheshire saw another rabbit hole from his vantage spot in Wonderland and walked through it, ending up somewhere in 2012. He then found a laptop or Smartphone, and a tree to live in.

Poirot was walking across the Sahara and looking at the Sphinx, I think, and he suffered a terrible heatstroke, and fell down. His body disappeared into the sand afterwards. He woke up, in 2012 London.

Holmes was battling Moriarty on the Reichenbach Falls, whacking him with his Hunting Crop while Moriarty attempted to attack him with his cane. They then started beating up each other, and fell into the falls. Holmes fell into the foaming waters and woke up in 2012 London.

Don Quixote was charging at a Windmill when he smashed right through it, and when he came out, his horse and armour were missing ( horse in windmill, same with armour) but he still had his sword. He found himself, confused and mental as usual, in a carpark in 2012. He then found a Smartphone.

Long John Silver watched Hawkins and the rest sail away from Treasure Island. He then noticed Gulliver shipwrecked on the island, helped him, and both of them fell through a portal in the cave, and ended up in 2012 Australia, where Long John Silver found a Smartphone.

The Wicked Witch of the West was flying across Oz, when she and her broomstick zoomed into a portal that had appeared in one of the Emerald City's towers. She then found herself in 2012, and found a laptop or Smartphone.

Where are all these Smartphones coming from anyway? Is Mr. A putting them, or is it just that people leave their phones lying around by accident?

I would say LJS could have been shipwrecked and the witch got caught in a hurricane.

They all sound pretty believable to me.

The Wicked Witch of the West was flying across Oz, when she and her broomstick zoomed into a portal that had appeared in one of the Emerald City's towers. She then found herself in 2012, and found a laptop or Smartphone.

This is good, though I also suspect the Wicked witch may have gotten stuck in one of her own tornados or something. I just think it would be fitting for her to show up in Kansas the same way Dorothy ended up in Oz. Edit: I see someone just suggested that: it's possibly though she DID imply in her blog that hurricanes had to be CAUSED deliberately in her world.

Where are all these Smartphones coming from anyway? Is Mr. A putting them, or is it just that people leave their phones lying around by accident?

Well a lot of people lose smartphones on a daily basis, but tnot with THIS regularity, certainly SOMETHING is putting modern tools into these characters hands, although who knows why - maybe to help US by making them easier to contact? Although Silver just seems to know how to USE the darn things without training...

Scarab wrote:They all sound pretty believable to me.

The Wicked Witch of the West was flying across Oz, when she and her broomstick zoomed into a portal that had appeared in one of the Emerald City's towers. She then found herself in 2012, and found a laptop or Smartphone.

This is good, though I also suspect the Wicked witch may have gotten stuck in one of her own tornados or something. I just think it would be fitting for her to show up in Kansas the same way Dorothy ended up in Oz. Edit: I see someone just suggested that: it's possibly though she DID imply in her blog that hurricanes had to be CAUSED deliberately in her world.

Where are all these Smartphones coming from anyway? Is Mr. A putting them, or is it just that people leave their phones lying around by accident?

Well a lot of people lose smartphones on a daily basis, but tnot with THIS regularity, certainly SOMETHING is putting modern tools into these characters hands, although who knows why - maybe to help US by making them easier to contact? Although Silver just seems to know how to USE the darn things without training...

Well, Smartphones do try to be as usable as possible, yet how would anyone like Don or Silver know how to use them? They were from books that have been from the 1600's and 1800's- times were no one would even think of something as an computer! How are they learning so quickly? Did they leave whole phone cases or something?

Well, Smartphones do try to be as usable as possible, yet how would anyone like Don or Silver know how to use them? They were from books that have been from the 1600's and 1800's- times were no one would even think of something as an computer! How are they learning so quickly? Did they leave whole phone cases or something?

The only possible explanations I can see is either the knowledge was implanted in their heads somehow, or they learned by trial and error (if they're from as late as the 1800 they should at LEAST have a vague idea of print setting), OR they found the whole box with the smart phone, complete with an instruction manual...

That would sound unreasonable... People would know they would have left entire phones behind!

That would sound unreasonable... People would know they would have left entire phones behind!

I guess so, which leaves the only posisiblity as being somebody left these phones for them deliberately.

Scarab wrote:

That would sound unreasonable... People would know they would have left entire phones behind!

I guess so, which leaves the only posisiblity as being somebody left these phones for them deliberately.

Which means there could be clues on them...

I'm pretty sure the witch confirmed she got caught in a twister. Just saying.

I'm pretty sure the witch confirmed she got caught in a twister. Just saying.

Ah. So it's confrmed then. That would suggest we're on the right lines.

Could we maybe predict weho else might turn up based on the events in the books? It'd be kind of like hunting for needles in haystacks I admit, but if we look at the stories of older, more influential characters and sort of figure out if there were any extremely confused or unclear moments where they might cross over...

aleph one wrote:has anyone entertained the idea that its not the fourth wall that is bleeding, but perhaps the second or third?

i'm not 100% sure we are not all fictional characters so I'm going to go dip my hand in paint thinners, if it melts then i must logically be drawn on something

I know this is almost a necropost, but whatever.
First, I'll nitpick a bit, as I tend to do. The "second or third" walls are actual walls. The fourth wall is a theatrical term meaning that one of the walls is "transparent", and we are looking through it.
Now that that's out of the way: we have assumed that we should behave as if we are on the "top level" of reality, because otherwise Mr. A (or even regular people) could have manipulated our reality without us noticing. So there's no way for us to confirm that we are fictional, anyway. Instead of "fictional world" we might as well say "lower fictional layer", and all that would change are semantics.

And on the whole "order of appearance" thing... I don't think there's a pattern, but, to be honest, I got tired of guessing and plotting without any data. Or with. x_x Maybe I need another break.

Dryunya wrote:And on the whole "order of appearance" thing... I don't think there's a pattern, but, to be honest, I got tired of guessing and plotting without any data. Or with. x_x Maybe I need another break.

Yeah, probably, but I figure it's worth having a look anyway, even if just to be sure it ISN'T relevant. All info is useful right now.

EDIT:

Cheshire zoomed up the rabbit hole.

Poirot's body was covered by sand, than he fell into a hole that had mysteriously appeared under the sand near the Sphinx.

Holmes fell into the waters, and was sucked into a whirlpool. He woke up in London, and his clothes were all SOMEHOW dry.

Moriarty probably had the same thing happen to him as well.

The Witch flying across the Emerald City, and terrorizing the population by causing tornadoes. She was sucked in by accident, by a tornado that was not hers, that had appeared near the Wizard's palace.

Sweeney Todd came into our world via this: He was cutting another throat- or trying to cut it. He was wrestling with a tough sailor who had a knife. Todd accidentally opened the cellar door in the floor and he toppled in. While the sailor fell and broke his neck, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street fell into a portal, and woke up in 2012 Boston, confused. He only had his razor, and went towards the psychatrist's office to get his memories back.

Dryunya wrote:

aleph one wrote:has anyone entertained the idea t... [snip]

I know this is almost a necropost, but whatever.
First, I'll nitpick a bit, as I tend to do. The "second or third" walls are actual walls. The fourth wall is a theatrical term meaning that one of the walls is "transparent", and we are looking through it. [snip]

doublenecro

yes i was using second and third walls as a silly metaphor for the divides between fictional worlds

And- Todd is in a scenario where he starts his reign of crime.

I don't follow.

Dryunya wrote:I don't follow.

Me neither, unless you count how we're trying to guess the fictionals arrived in our world, THAT part I get.

...You know, it dawns on me, it's entirely possible that the explanation for how the Wicked Witch got to reality from Oz could be, erm, "A Wizard Did It".

Scarab wrote:

Dryunya wrote:I don't follow.

Me neither, unless you count how we're trying to guess the fictionals arrived in our world, THAT part I get.

...You know, it dawns on me, it's entirely possible that the explanation for how the Wicked Witch got to reality from Oz could be, erm, "A Wizard Did It".

Drink.

A Wizard Did It- NOW THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

The WIzard of Oz can defend himself- with TORNADOES.

The Wild West Pyro wrote:A Wizard Did It- NOW THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

The WIzard of Oz can defend himself- with TORNADOES.

Well technically he probably couldn't, I mean wasn't that guy just a normal human from our world masqurading as a wizard? or is there some other wizard? I haven't actually read the book...

Scarab wrote:

The Wild West Pyro wrote:A Wizard Did It- NOW THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

The WIzard of Oz can defend himself- with TORNADOES.

Well technically he probably couldn't, I mean wasn't that guy just a normal human from our world masqurading as a wizard? or is there some other wizard? I haven't actually read the book...

He was pretending to be a wizard and then he become a wizard... I guess. I'm not sure. I think I'm wrong.