The "sending them back" dilemma

[NeverSlender]

There's another point that I have to bring into the light here: LAYAR.
We're already working on the sending back process. If we finish that before sealing The Wall, the endgame plan can't be taken into action. As we've already decided not to enforce it before it's time for the ending.

I don't see the point in sending them back without fixing the wall. They could just come straight back.

Gurt.
So far only the Witch slipped through. If we send them and the wall is still broken, they'll have a hell of a harder time to come back. Meaning less pressure on our side, which translate into more workforce focused in sealing the wall. It's a very sensible plan, actually.

The witch apparently came through before we sent Gurt. So we don't know how many others there are that we don't know about.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

The witch apparently came through before we sent Gurt. So we don't know how many others there are that we don't know about.

Actually, the witch did break through during Gurt's watch. He admitted to and apologized for it.

[NeverSlender]

The witch apparently came through before we sent Gurt. So we don't know how many others there are that we don't know about.

Actually, the witch did break through during Gurt's watch. He admitted to and apologized for it.

He said he didn't see her. Later it was confirmed she came through before he got there.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

Actually, the witch did break through during Gurt's watch. He admitted to and apologized for it.

He said he didn't see her. Later it was confirmed she came through before he got there.

This: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 8195870722
And this: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 1915682817
say differently.

[Pixelmage]

The witch apparently came through before we sent Gurt. So we don't know how many others there are that we don't know about.

Actually, the witch did break through during Gurt's watch. He admitted to and apologized for it.

He said he didn't see her. Later it was confirmed she came through before he got there.

If so that only proves the point that Gurt (so far) is an effective measure to stop the fictionals from bleeding into our world. Regardless of the cracks.
Very well played, by forcing us to send them back before we can enact our endgame plan we're left without a saving throw. Why am I not mad at this? I mean... I find this rather awesome actually. To be outplayed.

[NeverSlender]

Actually, the witch did break through during Gurt's watch. He admitted to and apologized for it.

He said he didn't see her. Later it was confirmed she came through before he got there.

This: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 8195870722
And this: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 1915682817
say differently.

In the first one he says he doesn't say he saw the witch. In the second he assumes the alarm system saw her but wasn't working. At no point did he actually see the witch.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

He said he didn't see her. Later it was confirmed she came through before he got there.

This: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 8195870722
And this: https://twitter.com/GurtTheLimeMan/stat ... 1915682817
say differently.

In the first one he says he doesn't say he saw the witch. In the second he assumes the alarm system saw her but wasn't working. At no point did he actually see the witch.

"Saw her" means "I saw her". Either way, I was only trying to prove that Gurt was there, as you said she broke through before we sent Gurt.

[Sicon112]

In the first one he says he doesn't say he saw the witch. In the second he assumes the alarm system saw her but wasn't working. At no point did he actually see the witch.

I'm pretty sure that he was saying he saw her like on cameras or something but when he tried to send out a warning, the alarm didn't work. Ambiguous wording though. Regardless, this shows that the witch got through AFTER the guardians.

[NeverSlender]

"Saw her but the guardians weren't notified". He is a guardian, and the alarm system didn't notify him.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

"Saw her but the guardians weren't notified". He is a guardian, and the alarm system didn't notify him.

He's the leader of the guardians. He's not officially one of the guardians.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

That still doesn't counter the argument that the witch broke through while they were on guard.

[Scarab]

Hang on a sec, okay there are clearly agents established TO guard the wall in the first place right? Which surely means that people can, under normal circumstances, go through the wall of their own accord? The only problem now is how many, and how quickly they are doing so, cauing more damage to the wall than the wall itself can cope with. It's like... the wall can repair itself for minor incursions (it must have been doing so every time we broke the fourth wall in writing and so on), but now just so much is coming through that it can't cope - and the more the wall breaks down the easier it is to get through. But even unner NORMAL circumstances, it's penetrable.

This is just my winding way of asking: can we fix the wall and THEN send people back? That way some people can just choose to stay and if they don't pose a threat to our world, should be allowed to.

[NeverSlender]

Hang on a sec, okay there are clearly agents established TO guard the wall in the first place right? Which surely means that people can, under normal circumstances, go through the wall of their own accord? The only problem now is how many, and how quickly they are doing so, cauing more damage to the wall than the wall itself can cope with. It's like... the wall can repair itself for minor incursions (it must have been doing so every time we broke the fourth wall in writing and so on), but now just so much is coming through that it can't cope - and the more the wall breaks down the easier it is to get through. But even unner NORMAL circumstances, it's penetrable.

This is just my winding way of asking: can we fix the wall and THEN send people back? That way some people can just choose to stay and if they don't pose a threat to our world, should be allowed to.

I think it would have to be the other way around. They came through the cracks, so if we fix the wall, there are no cracks to send them back through.

[Pixelmage]

Hang on a sec, okay there are clearly agents established TO guard the wall in the first place right? Which surely means that people can, under normal circumstances, go through the wall of their own accord? The only problem now is how many, and how quickly they are doing so, cauing more damage to the wall than the wall itself can cope with. It's like... the wall can repair itself for minor incursions (it must have been doing so every time we broke the fourth wall in writing and so on), but now just so much is coming through that it can't cope - and the more the wall breaks down the easier it is to get through. But even unner NORMAL circumstances, it's penetrable.

This is just my winding way of asking: can we fix the wall and THEN send people back? That way some people can just choose to stay and if they don't pose a threat to our world, should be allowed to.

I think it would have to be the other way around. They came through the cracks, so if we fix the wall, there are no cracks to send them back through.

This is the one question we need to answer. We know it's possible to fictionalize people without breaking the wall (Zack, EC's canon. Not related to this crisis. cAke confirmed on twitter.),

Therefore, we must know if sending the characters back is also possible with a standing wall. So far we don't know that.

If it is, the LAYAR is forcing our hand, by making sure we send then back before we get to the point where we can act upon our Endgame Plan.

If it isn't. Our plan to allow the safe characters to choose if they go or stay is null and void, because we'll need to fix the wall. And to do that we'll have to send them back before that point.

[Scarab]

Hang on a sec, okay there are clearly agents established TO guard the wall in the first place right? Which surely means that people can, under normal circumstances, go through the wall of their own accord? The only problem now is how many, and how quickly they are doing so, cauing more damage to the wall than the wall itself can cope with. It's like... the wall can repair itself for minor incursions (it must have been doing so every time we broke the fourth wall in writing and so on), but now just so much is coming through that it can't cope - and the more the wall breaks down the easier it is to get through. But even unner NORMAL circumstances, it's penetrable.

This is just my winding way of asking: can we fix the wall and THEN send people back? That way some people can just choose to stay and if they don't pose a threat to our world, should be allowed to.

I think it would have to be the other way around. They came through the cracks, so if we fix the wall, there are no cracks to send them back through.

This is the one question we need to answer. We know it's possible to fictionalize people without breaking the wall (Zack, EC's canon. Not related to this crisis. cAke confirmed on twitter.),

Therefore, we must know if sending the characters back is also possible with a standing wall. So far we don't know that.

If it is, the LAYAR is forcing our hand, by making sure we send then back before we get to the point where we can act upon our Endgame Plan.

If it isn't. Our plan to allow the safe characters to choose if they go or stay is null and void, because we'll need to fix the wall. And to do that we'll have to send them back before that point.

So, essentially, we may have no choice but to send them back?

I dunno, the Layar thing doens't seem to do anything so far except help us track down exactly where the characters are, and pin point the weak spots they caused. I don't see how that is stopping us from considering our own plan.

[Pixelmage]

So, essentially, we may have no choice but to send them back?

I dunno, the Layar thing doens't seem to do anything so far except help us track down exactly where the characters are, and pin point the weak spots they caused. I don't see how that is stopping us from considering our own plan.

RIght now, it's not.
But what using it means is that we're moving towards sending them back, instead of moving towards repairing the wall. Until we manage to seal off the wall so that no other fictionals can cross, we can't deploy the endgame plan. So, our dear cAke is moving us towards sending the characters back before we can do anything about it.

Sure, we don't know how this will go from now on, but this plot path seems to me like a very smart counter play to our current plan.

[NeverSlender]

So, essentially, we may have no choice but to send them back?

I dunno, the Layar thing doens't seem to do anything so far except help us track down exactly where the characters are, and pin point the weak spots they caused. I don't see how that is stopping us from considering our own plan.

RIght now, it's not.
But what using it means is that we're moving towards sending them back, instead of moving towards repairing the wall. Until we manage to seal off the wall so that no other fictionals can cross, we can't deploy the endgame plan. So, our dear cAke is moving us towards sending the characters back before we can do anything about it.

Sure, we don't know how this will go from now on, but this plot path seems to me like a very smart counter play to our current plan.

It's not.

[WackyMeetsPractical]

So, essentially, we may have no choice but to send them back?

I dunno, the Layar thing doens't seem to do anything so far except help us track down exactly where the characters are, and pin point the weak spots they caused. I don't see how that is stopping us from considering our own plan.

RIght now, it's not.
But what using it means is that we're moving towards sending them back, instead of moving towards repairing the wall. Until we manage to seal off the wall so that no other fictionals can cross, we can't deploy the endgame plan. So, our dear cAke is moving us towards sending the characters back before we can do anything about it.

Sure, we don't know how this will go from now on, but this plot path seems to me like a very smart counter play to our current plan.

This is why you don't form plans before you know you have the ability to act on them.

[NeverSlender]

So, essentially, we may have no choice but to send them back?

I dunno, the Layar thing doens't seem to do anything so far except help us track down exactly where the characters are, and pin point the weak spots they caused. I don't see how that is stopping us from considering our own plan.

RIght now, it's not.
But what using it means is that we're moving towards sending them back, instead of moving towards repairing the wall. Until we manage to seal off the wall so that no other fictionals can cross, we can't deploy the endgame plan. So, our dear cAke is moving us towards sending the characters back before we can do anything about it.

Sure, we don't know how this will go from now on, but this plot path seems to me like a very smart counter play to our current plan.

This is why you don't form plans before you know you have the ability to act on them.

Actually, this is why you form several different plans that account for what might happen next. This plan was based on one sequence of events, but now another may take place.

[Dryunya]

Um, you lost me.
I think we shouldn't worry yet - the Layar stuff provides informaion to Mr. A. He didn't say that it will allow him to fix the wall, but I assume it will. I'd say the final decision on wheter or not to send the characters will be made by those who will actually perform the action that sends them back. If it's Mr. A, he will just do something and say "Whoopsie, guys, I've already sent them back".
If we want to have the power to decide, we must check if the action we do will be the last one we get to do. And I don't think Layar is the last one.

[Pixelmage]

Um, you lost me.

HOW?

Anyway, I already pointed out that this does not affect the Endgame Plan now. Just nudges us towards one path were we won't be able to enforce it. That's all we have for now, the plan is still on the table.

[Dryunya]

That means we should be aware of what actions we're taking both to fix the wall and to bring the characters back. If these actions are separate, we may try to choose to ignore them when it comes to the characters we want to leave here.
I see what you're talking about, though - GMs may not leave us the opportunity. Don't forget that the Endgame Plan hinges upon us having a separate choice for every character.

[Dryunya]

Have you seen Mr. A's update? Clearly, It's Personal for him. I can just feel it. He's so happy.

[Scarab]

Have you seen Mr. A's update? Clearly, It's Personal for him. I can just feel it. He's so happy.

"We hold all the pieces of the wall"... what?

Also, that didn't help us look rational and open to discussion.

[NeverSlender]

Have you seen Mr. A's update? Clearly, It's Personal for him. I can just feel it. He's so happy.

This just makes me trust him less. He seems to be far too haughty about this.

1. If he holds all the pieces of the wall, how did they crack? Did he do it?

2. He may be trolling us, but he crossed his hands again, in a different way to last time. This would mean it is a different instantiation to the last video.