Watch the Footage archive

Sicon112 wrote:Doesn't that mean we trap ourselves on the other side of the fourth wall, though?

In a way, yes. Pixelmage would become a fully fictional character. But the real person operating the computer wouldn'd be affected. Quite like a self-insert fanfic.

RotavatoR wrote:This may mean that they will be even more lonely than they are right now. They still won't be back in their own world, and they'll miss all the characters they had in that own world.

Not more. They'll stay as they are now. So, in a way that's sad. But they'll still be alive.

But yeah... It's true that this plan too has a lot of holes and implications...

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

I can't give an answer to that... Honestly, I can't. I have novel's worth of text to answer... But, I won't engage in that fight... The meta is going way too high. No need to take it higher.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

I agree. We can't get held up on these things. They're here, they need to be sent back. Keep it simple.

NeverSlender wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

To be honest our mission from Mr. A always seems to be "AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS WHILE I GATHER INFORMATION" and it's starting to get on my nerves.

Well, whether or not we listen to him, it doesn't change a lot. Our goal is to close the wall. By the way, where does it say that we have to send everyone back before we can close the wall?

RotavatoR wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

To be honest our mission from Mr. A always seems to be "AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS WHILE I GATHER INFORMATION" and it's starting to get on my nerves.

Well, whether or not we listen to him, it doesn't change a lot. Our goal is to close the wall. By the way, where does it say that we have to send everyone back before we can close the wall?

Logic: You have a door. You close it. You try to go to the other side. What happens?

Nowhere.

NeverSlender wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

To be honest our mission from Mr. A always seems to be "AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS WHILE I GATHER INFORMATION" and it's starting to get on my nerves.

The instructions may not always be clear, but the end game is apparent: THEY MUST BE SENT BACK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18nixzy ... e=youtu.be

Victin wrote:Logic: You have a door. You close it. You try to go to the other side. What happens?

No, I mean, why do we have to send everyone back? Can we keep some characters in the real world and still close the wall?

I just thought of something: If someone doesn't want to send R and J back, then why would we close the wall if there are so many other fictionals we could save?

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:The levels of meta in this thread is overwhelming.

Let's try to keep things as simple as possible. Characters are breaking through. They're not supposed to be here. We need to patch up the walls before something bad comes through, like, say, Godzilla. But we can't do that until we send everyone who's already gone through back, even the ones with unhappy endings. They're fictional, so whether they die or live or become a part of a new story is inconsequential. Our only concern at this point is to find them all and figure out a way to send them back. If that's not our mission, then what is? Why are we even here?

To be honest our mission from Mr. A always seems to be "AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS WHILE I GATHER INFORMATION" and it's starting to get on my nerves.

The instructions may not always be clear, but the end game is apparent: THEY MUST BE SENT BACK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18nixzy ... e=youtu.be

With no justification whatsoever. I'm not buying it. He's gonna need more than that to justify sending characters to their deaths.

Because they don't belong here, and it may have some adverse effects on our world and theirs for all we know even after the wall is fixed. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking anything, they all should be sent back.

Adell wrote:Because they don't belong here, and it may have some adverse effects on our world and theirs for all we know even after the wall is fixed. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking anything, they all should be sent back.

And do we know they'll be sent to their deaths? Isn't that just a theory?

Pixelmage wrote:

RotavatoR wrote:This may mean that they will be even more lonely than they are right now. They still won't be back in their own world, and they'll miss all the characters they had in that own world.

Not more. They'll stay as they are now. So, in a way that's sad. But they'll still be alive.

They might be more lonely if they will no longer be able to communicate with us. Would that world still have connections to ours? Who would be in it? Just the eight fictionals in an enormous fictional version of our real life earth?

Sorry, I realize this idea has been dropped, I just like to converse about it. I'll stop if you want me to, I'm getting a headache.

Adell wrote:Because they don't belong here, and it may have some adverse effects on our world and theirs for all we know even after the wall is fixed. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking anything, they all should be sent back.

Read my earlier post, I basically agreed with you. My point is that Mr. A can't expect us to basically kill people without telling us they're having an adverse effect on reality.

EDIT: Not a theory. In R+Js story they die at the end. That's what they will be sent back to.

NeverSlender wrote:

Adell wrote:Because they don't belong here, and it may have some adverse effects on our world and theirs for all we know even after the wall is fixed. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking anything, they all should be sent back.

Read my earlier post, I basically agreed with you. My point is that Mr. A can't expect us to basically kill people without telling us they're having an adverse effect on reality.

EDIT: Not a theory. In R+Js story they die at the end. That's what they will be sent back to.

Guys! They're not real! They're fictional! They're deaths are predestined, written many years ago. There stories are told countless times, each ending the same way. They've already died hundreds of time. It's okay, though, because they're not real. This is no time to get sentimental. There is nothing morally wrong about this. They're nothing more than ideas, an illusion of life. And they don't belong here.

NeverSlender wrote:Read my earlier post, I basically agreed with you. My point is that Mr. A can't expect us to basically kill people without telling us they're having an adverse effect on reality.

EDIT: Not a theory. In R+Js story they die at the end. That's what they will be sent back to.

Ah, that. Even though it's sad that they die, their story is adapted and learned from many times over. Having them not die in the end will do Word of God-knows-what to the history of fiction.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:

Adell wrote:Because they don't belong here, and it may have some adverse effects on our world and theirs for all we know even after the wall is fixed. I don't know about you, but I'm not risking anything, they all should be sent back.

Read my earlier post, I basically agreed with you. My point is that Mr. A can't expect us to basically kill people without telling us they're having an adverse effect on reality.

EDIT: Not a theory. In R+Js story they die at the end. That's what they will be sent back to.

Guys! They're not real! They're fictional! They're deaths are predestined, written many years ago. There stories are told countless times, each ending the same way. They've already died hundreds of time. It's okay, though, because they're not real. This is no time to get sentimental. There is nothing morally wrong about this. They're nothing more than ideas, an illusion of life. And they don't belong here.

In meta terms of course. But in story it's a little difficult to justify as they appear to be in our reality and to be acting like real people.

It may not seem fair, but they need to be sent back to their fictional world. They were characters created by an author, we can't expect that their, or our, actions in this world to change that story (as it already exists), so regardless of what we do the tragedy will still happen, they will die. But if they DO stay here, it could cause unknown damage to both fiction and reality; they may die anyway if that's the case, just here. We can't afford to risk reality crumbling so two lovebirds can have their happy ending, it isn't fair to us.

At least in their story they're the closest to being immortal you can be. All you need to do is flip the pages back and start the story over.

NeverSlender wrote:In meta terms of course. But in story it's a little difficult to justify as they appear to be in our reality and to be acting like real people.

Even in non-meta terms. They're confirmed fictional characters. They behave like real people because that is what they are designed to do. A robot programmed to behave like a human is no closer to being human. A character is written to resemble humans, but are not human. Some anomaly occurred that brought them here, but they are no less fictional. When they are returned, they will continue to exist as characters, in they same sense that they've existed for all these years. There is no life or death for them. It's all just stories.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:In meta terms of course. But in story it's a little difficult to justify as they appear to be in our reality and to be acting like real people.

Even in non-meta terms. They're confirmed fictional characters. They behave like real people because that is what they are designed to do. A robot programmed to behave like a human is no closer to being human. A character is written to resemble humans, but are not human. Some anomaly occurred that brought them here, but they are no less fictional. When they are returned, they will continue to exist as characters, in they same sense that they've existed for all these years. There is no life or death for them. It's all just stories.

I disagree. If you can feel emotions you are not a robot. These characters can clearly feel emotions.

This isn't something to be argued. Human/programmed, whatever you think they are. They need to be sent back.

Feel sympathy if you want, but we can't change our very goals because of that.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:Even in non-meta terms. They're confirmed fictional characters. They behave like real people because that is what they are designed to do. A robot programmed to behave like a human is no closer to being human. A character is written to resemble humans, but are not human. Some anomaly occurred that brought them here, but they are no less fictional. When they are returned, they will continue to exist as characters, in they same sense that they've existed for all these years. There is no life or death for them. It's all just stories.

That's one awfully practical point of view. Yes I understand your meaning. But in the same way you feel sad reading a tragedy, or scared reading an horror story... We're reading these characteres here and now. Their dramas and fights... How can we not sympathise as readers, and tropers at that!, and wonder about the meanings and moralities of the ending or possible endings?

NeverSlender wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:In meta terms of course. But in story it's a little difficult to justify as they appear to be in our reality and to be acting like real people.

Even in non-meta terms. They're confirmed fictional characters. They behave like real people because that is what they are designed to do. A robot programmed to behave like a human is no closer to being human. A character is written to resemble humans, but are not human. Some anomaly occurred that brought them here, but they are no less fictional. When they are returned, they will continue to exist as characters, in they same sense that they've existed for all these years. There is no life or death for them. It's all just stories.

I disagree. If you can feel emotions you are not a robot. These characters can clearly feel emotions.

They display emotions. That's not the same as feeling emotions. They're characters, written specifically to invoke emotional reactions, and imitating emotional reactions. And that's what they've continued to do in our world. But that doesn't make them real.

Adell wrote:This isn't something to be argued. Human/programmed, whatever. They need to be sent back.

Feel sympathy if you want, but we can't change our very goals because of that.

Again, read my first post on this thread. As long as there is justification for them to be sent back other than the obvious "they're not supposed to be here" then I agree. But if there's no further justification then it makes a crap story, which is what this is, a story.

They display emotions. That's not the same as feeling emotions. They're characters, written specifically to invoke emotional reactions, and imitating emotional reactions. And that's what they've continued to do in our world. But that doesn't make them real.

Again, I disagree. Displaying emotions and feeling emotions is the difference between being on the fictional side of the wall and being on our side.

I have a sugestion to make.

It is clear to all of us that, no matter what we talk about here. And how we justify that sending them back is wrong. It won't change the result of the game. It won't change what we'll do in the end.
As I said, we talk about this because we sympathise with the chracters here the same way we do when we read then on their books. It's only natural to think about the Aesops behind the story. And we're now reading one as it is written. We will think about it, we will talk about it. This will pop up again and again. And won't change anything in our story at all.

So, for those who are here to just say: "This is stupid. FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS!". Get out. Now. Abstain from posting here at all. We will keep doing our part, whether you're telling us to or not. This topic does not change that. And we can keep this gigantic elephant in his own room right here for those of us who ARE interested in thinking about it.

How does that sound?

Pixelmage wrote:I have a sugestion to make.

It is clear to all of us that, no matter what we talk about here. And how we justify that sending them back is wrong. It won't change the result of the game. It won't change what we'll do in the end.
As I said, we talk about this because we sympathise with the chracters here the same way we do when we read then on their books. It's only natural to think about the Aesops behind the story. And we're now reading one as it is written. We will think about it, we will talk about. This will pop up again and again. And won't change anything in our story at all.

So, for those who are here to just say: "This is stupid. FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS!". Get out. Now. Abstain from posting here at all. We will keep doing our part, whether you're telling us to or not. This topic does not change that. And we can keep this gigantic elephant in his own room right here for those of us who ARE interested in thinking about it.

How does that sound?

How about we discuss, like what this board was made for? We don't agree with your opinions so we're talking about them. That's allowed. That's how this works, Pixelmage. The point of this thread is to discuss the dilemma of sending them back and its implications, as long as that is the current discussion, and we aren't off topic, we may say our opinions on it.

At no point have we said that "this is stupid." I for one find your opinions very insightful, actually. My posts were just to make sure we knew what we had to do, regardless of how we felt about these characters.