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I've been thinking about this.

What if we have no choice but to send them back?

What happens to the fictional worlds where the characters come from if they're not returned? What would happen if the stories from the point they left vanished, and something else took their place?

Let's take Romeo and Juliet, for example. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that they left after act 3 of the original play. What happens if they never return? Does the play begin to change? Is there some war between their families, each accusing the other of kidnapping or killing their kid?

Worse, what would happen if those changes became retroactive? What would the history of culture look like if Romeo and Juliet had such an ending? Or what if Don Quixote ends with him somehow disappearing into a fantastic new world?

I don't trust Mr. cAke at all. But I'm worried that we might not have the luxury of choice.

Nitrogenous Base wrote:I've been thinking about this.

What if we have no choice but to send them back?

What happens to the fictional worlds where the characters come from if they're not returned? What would happen if the stories from the point they left vanished, and something else took their place?

Let's take Romeo and Juliet, for example. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that they left after act 3 of the original play. What happens if they never return? Does the play begin to change? Is there some war between their families, each accusing the other of kidnapping or killing their kid?

Worse, what would happen if those changes became retroactive? What would the history of culture look like if Romeo and Juliet had such an ending? Or what if Don Quixote ends with him somehow disappearing into a fantastic new world?

I don't trust Mr. cAke at all. But I'm worried that we might not have the luxury of choice.

If that's the case then that's fine. That would be the justification, which I believe we currently lack, for sending them back.

Well, that's true...

And, with the current development on Todd... One of our beloved fictionals is serial killer. Meaning, would it be wise to keep him here? Regardless of whether or not he can be dealt with by de police, if he kills someone it'll be a bad thing. It's a BIG danger mark in the equation.

Pixelmage wrote:Well, that's true...

And, with the current development on Todd... One of our beloved fictionals is serial killer. Meaning, would it be wise to keep him here? Regardless of whether or not he can be dealt with by de police, if he kills someone it'll be a bad thing. It's a BIG danger mark in the equation.

Makes me wonder about Holmes and Poirot. The people who died that have now caused them to be on the run (Okwogu and Verhearen)...were they killed for that reason, to put them on the run? That means 'real life' individuals have been murdered by someone due to the presence of these fictional characters,

Adell wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:Well, that's true...

And, with the current development on Todd... One of our beloved fictionals is serial killer. Meaning, would it be wise to keep him here? Regardless of whether or not he can be dealt with by de police, if he kills someone it'll be a bad thing. It's a BIG danger mark in the equation.

Makes me wonder about Holmes and Poirot. The people who died that have now caused them to be on the run (Okwogu and Verhearen)...were they killed for that reason, to put them on the run? That means 'real life' individuals have been murdered by someone due to the presence of these fictional characters,

We discussed this in the Fourth Wall Bleeding Through thread.

Adell wrote:Makes me wonder about Holmes and Poirot. The people who died that have now caused them to be on the run (Okwogu and Verhearen)...were they killed for that reason, to put them on the run? That means 'real life' individuals have been murdered by someone due to the presence of these fictional characters,

This is the magic of the Hivemind! Applying the Scenario Theory. Unless a fictional muder victim crosses over... The Plot that rules over a character's life, as opposed by The Fate of real people, dictates that there must be a murder case. That calls for a victim, and if there's only Reals around...

Sure, I DON'T want to send the lovers to their deaths... But if Holmes causes murders by simply being here, that's a problem right there, though he, maybe perhaps it might be possible, could change into other sects of investigation that do not involve death, but it still would call for the incidents that he should investigate... And Todd? I'd kill him myself. Using a deck of cards (use your imagination).

If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

That's... Depressing... I would think then, about what if we could change them... As a followup to the "Throw the ARG over the wall", this new cannon could be different from their original plot. But honestly, I'm grasping at straws to defend that...
If that's the case, then there's no way to avert their suffering, by that thread, the logical conclusion would be that the best way is to send them back as fast as possible so that they do not have die here as well as every time their story is read.

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

That's... Depressing... I would think then, about what if we could change them... As a followup to the "Throw the ARG over the wall", this new cannon could be different from their original plot. But honestly, I'm grasping at straws to defend that...
If that's the case, then there's no way to avert their suffering, by that thread, the logical conclusion would be that the best way is to send them back as fast as possible so that they do not have die here as well as every time their story is read.

Your last sentence is actually a justification for letting them stay. Better to die once than hundreds of times.

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

That's... Depressing... I would think then, about what if we could change them... As a followup to the "Throw the ARG over the wall", this new cannon could be different from their original plot. But honestly, I'm grasping at straws to defend that...
If that's the case, then there's no way to avert their suffering, by that thread, the logical conclusion would be that the best way is to send them back as fast as possible so that they do not have die here as well as every time their story is read.

None of us want things to be that way, but if it ends up being that way we need to send them back for their good as well as our own. At least in their stories they'll always exist in some fashion. If they die here...that's it.

Adell wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

That's... Depressing... I would think then, about what if we could change them... As a followup to the "Throw the ARG over the wall", this new cannon could be different from their original plot. But honestly, I'm grasping at straws to defend that...
If that's the case, then there's no way to avert their suffering, by that thread, the logical conclusion would be that the best way is to send them back as fast as possible so that they do not have die here as well as every time their story is read.

None of us want things to be that way, but if it ends up being that way we need to send them back for their good as well as our own. At least in their stories they'll always exist in some fashion. If they die here...that's it.

I think dying once and being able to rest in peace is better than dying everytime someone reads your story.

NeverSlender wrote:

Pixelmage wrote:

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:If you're right that the character's plots do in fact follow them into this world, then that also means that Romeo and Juliet will not be able to avoid death even here. Not only that, but it's possible that others around them will also die, just like in their own story. I wonder if their presence may spark a feud between the girls and the guys that the lovers had befriended, this duplicating the plot they had just left.

That's... Depressing... I would think then, about what if we could change them... As a followup to the "Throw the ARG over the wall", this new cannon could be different from their original plot. But honestly, I'm grasping at straws to defend that...
If that's the case, then there's no way to avert their suffering, by that thread, the logical conclusion would be that the best way is to send them back as fast as possible so that they do not have die here as well as every time their story is read.

Your last sentence is actually a justification for letting them stay. Better to die once than hundreds of times.

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

NeverSlender wrote:

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

They wouldn't know that they'll living like that. Each occurance will be just as new to them as the first time.

NeverSlender wrote:Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

Ninja'd, a little, but before now, they at least didn't know that it kept repeating. Like if you're living in a Groundhog Day Loop, but of course no one else knew that the day was going on over and over again. Will they go back to that, or will they be affected by their knowledge of what's beyond the Wall?

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

They wouldn't know that they'll living like that. Each occurance will be just as new to them as the first time.

That's even worse...

NeverSlender wrote:

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

What I'm saying is that, if they die here they might hurt someone real in the process (if it's following their story). If death is inevitable for them, they should die in their STORY where no one real will be harmed in the process.

NeverSlender wrote:

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

My reasoning is that, since we can still read their books now, they're still dying over and over even as they're here. (Mindscrewy much?). Then, by sending them back we can avert their death this one time.

Pixelmage wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:

I don't think that's true. If they die hundreds of time, they will continue to live in order to die again, thus granting them immortality. As opposed to if they die once here. They're just dead.

Who would ever want to live like that, especially when it's going to last forever and keep repeating.

My reasoning is that, since we can still read their books now, they're still dying over and over even as they're here. (Mindscrewy much?). Then, by sending them back we can avert their death this one time.

What's one death out of millions? Besides, they might not die here.

NeverSlender wrote:What's one death out of millions? Besides, they might not die here.

Damn... I'm off my game here... Seriously... I'm mindscrewing myself... I'll be back later... But for now, can we know whether or not they'll die? If so, we'll se the signals: will we be able to actually stop it? Will we be able to change their ending?

I need to cooldown... My mind is in overdrive here.

Pixelmage wrote:

NeverSlender wrote:What's one death out of millions? Besides, they might not die here.

Damn... I'm off my game here... Seriously... I'm mindscrewing myself... I'll be back later... But for now, can we know whether or not they'll die? If so, we'll se the signals: will we be able to actually stop it? Will we be able to change their ending?

I need to cooldown... My mind is in overdrive here.

At least while they're still here we have a CHANCE to stop them dying. Sending them back is condemning them to their fate.

But before now, they at least didn't know that it kept repeating. Like if you're living in a Groundhog Day Loop, but of course no one else knew that the day was going on over and over again. Will they go back to that, or will they be affected by their knowledge of what's beyond the Wall?

IslaKariese wrote:But before now, they at least didn't know that it kept repeating. Like if you're living in a Groundhog Day Loop, but of course no one else knew that the day was going on over and over again. Will they go back to that, or will they be affected by their knowledge of what's beyond the Wall?

We have no way of knowing yet unfortunately...even if Mr.A said everything we just be reset, he could very well be lying to make sure we don't falter in sending them back.

IslaKariese wrote:But before now, they at least didn't know that it kept repeating. Like if you're living in a Groundhog Day Loop, but of course no one else knew that the day was going on over and over again. Will they go back to that, or will they be affected by their knowledge of what's beyond the Wall?

What's better, being aware or unaware of an infinite cycle of them dying?

NeverSlender wrote:

IslaKariese wrote:But before now, they at least didn't know that it kept repeating. Like if you're living in a Groundhog Day Loop, but of course no one else knew that the day was going on over and over again. Will they go back to that, or will they be affected by their knowledge of what's beyond the Wall?

What's better, being aware or unaware of an infinite cycle of them dying?

They were just "characters" in their story. They weren't AWARE of anything. They were written to react certain ways during the story to support the plot. What's going on with the hole in the 4th wall has no bearing on that. Now, if they go BACK aware, then the story is no longer a story exactly...