Zack is the wall-crosser

[Dryunya]

I know everyone occupied with the new blog, but there's one thing that's been bugging me since this afternoon, and I can't believe it wasn't mentioned before.
ZACK HAS BEEN TO THE VOID.
Seriously. 6:12. There is also his offhand comment at 3:20 - "He lives in a big white void".
That means the void is not only between reality and fiction, but also in some place that is physically accessible by Zack. We can't really ask him about that, since he's absent.

That gives us more data, but I have no idea what to make of this. Get cracking, hivemind.

[Sicon112]

Despite my appearances to the contrary, I have never actually watched Echo Chamber, nor do I know anyone who has, nor have I even read the TV Tropes page. I'd love to help, but I'm useless on this one. Still, I'm pretty sure we have something. Something very interesting.

[Scarab]

I'm not sure I can add to this, but you know, it might actually explain a few things.

I mean for one thing, when they realied Zack had left the show... why couldn't they just replace the camera man, which is surely what Dana and Tom would have to do anyway? They said all they needed was a a camera man to begin the scene - and then the rest could run on suspension of disbelief... So why did they even NEED a specific cameraman enough to have to instigate a retcon on every layer?
Wallbreaker or not, Zack is clearly a relevant factor in all this...

[NeverSlender]

Maybe not the cameraman, but the camera.

[Dryunya]

I've already been ninja'd, but it's too late to edit the Wall Of Text.

Despite my appearances to the contrary, I have never actually watched Echo Chamber, nor do I know anyone who has, nor have I even read the TV Tropes page.

I'll make something resembling a recap. Spoiler alert, just in case.

Mr. A contacted Tom to make a ("not just a") vlog for TV Tropes. Dana eventually came along to be a producer. Zack is the cameraman. The first season largely documents their endeavours. The season ends with Tom remaking the Echo Chamber from Zack's footage (he tends to film the cast all the time), thus, essentially, producing the very season you were watching.
The Wham Episode is the last one, where, as I said, Zack meets Mr. A. He tells Zack that he trusts him in his project, as they are similar: Zack is being pushed by his father (Mark) into life he doesn't want, and "my father... Let's just say I sympathize" .

Now, some WordOfGod on Zack's importance. He essentially jump-starts the show, as eventually (in season 2) the Shaky Cam gradually disappears, and there are some shots where the question arises: "Who is holding the camera?" The answer is - nobody does, as the show is somewhat fictional by now (I've learnt that detail in the latest interview - totally missed it when I was watching). But Zack is still needed for the show to run, and he leaves at the end of season 2. In the penultimate episode, Mr. A replies to Mark's "Why do you need my son!?" with "... because he can suspend disbelief".

I won't recap the Mind Screw episode, as it is pretty much required to have a clue about what's going on.

Basically, those are the interactions between Zack and Mr. A. Don't hesitate to correct or add something. I don't really remember the plot in-between, as I tend to forget the details of fiction I'm done with (can't say I'm happy about it).

I think that's enough to start the discussion. The main questions are "How does Zack get into the void" and "how is this important".

[NeverSlender]

Could it be because Zack is simple, and therefore can suspend his OWN disbelief very easily, or his strangeness means people don't know what to expect and so suspend THEIR disbelief.

[Scarab]

Hm... how many times in fiction have we come across characters who can do strange things simply through, say, not realising said things were impossible? Or due to their personality or nature giving them some kind of protection from the rules of logic? Reality warpers, 'sleepers' who possess magical abilities without knowing it, or even children, or the childlike, who are able to see things adults can't. So far as we know Zack is human, and since he apparantly has a PhD in Art he's clearly very creative... but maybe he's something a little other than that?

'He can suspend disbelief'... maybe he's a walking, talking perception filter, of a sort, and without him behind the camera, Dana and Tom will start to pick up on weirdnesses that they had previously been glossing over?

Maybe not the cameraman, but the camera.

Do you mean that Zack's specific camera may be some kind of instrument, maintaining suspension of disbelief?

[NeverSlender]

Not sure. I was thinking that, in the same way that A. C. Doyle's version of Holmes is one canon, and there are other Holmes canons, what Zack films with his camera could be one canon and if a new camera and cameraman is used it could create a new canon. They would then have to start again.

[Scarab]

Not sure. I was thinking that, in the same way that A. C. Doyle's version of Holmes is one canon, and there are other Holmes canons, what Zack films with his camera could be one canon and if a new camera and cameraman is used it could create a new canon. They would then have to start again.

...And then they'd have ANOTHER layer to deal with, as opposed to fixing the problem that exists on every layer they have now, right, I think I understand. That would be a problem for Mister A... for which the only concievable solution is a Retcon on every layer - which is tricky, it seems, even for them. I have no idea how they'd even implement that.

Perhaps it's a combination: both Zack AND that camera are important?

[NeverSlender]

Maybe the cracks were caused by the attempted retcon of Zack?

[Scarab]

Maybe the cracks were caused by the attempted retcon of Zack?

Could be, weren't people talking earlier about how all attempts to fix the cracks were basically just patches, and that those patches could never work as permenant solutions? I don't think we saw any signs of the cracks before the talk abouta Retcon began, and a retcon THAT big on that many levels... there has to be consequences to that.

So do you think all these problems basically started with Mister A?

[NeverSlender]

Maybe the cracks were caused by the attempted retcon of Zack?

Could be, weren't people talking earlier about how all attempts to fix the cracks were basically just patches, and that those patches could never work as permenant solutions? I don't think we saw any signs of the cracks before the talk abouta Retcon began, and a retcon THAT big on that many levels... there has to be consequences to that.

So do you think all these problems basically started with Mister A?

He's the only one who seems to know about them.

[Endless Sea]

Maybe the cracks were caused by the attempted retcon of Zack?

Could be, weren't people talking earlier about how all attempts to fix the cracks were basically just patches, and that those patches could never work as permenant solutions? I don't think we saw any signs of the cracks before the talk abouta Retcon began, and a retcon THAT big on that many levels... there has to be consequences to that.

So do you think all these problems basically started with Mister A?

He's the only one who seems to know about them.

I'd actually considered that theory myself. Considering that even Admin-Prime seemed a bit worried about how the plan would work out, it's entirely possible that their attempts could've had dire, unforeseen consequences such as cracks in the fourth wall.

[Scarab]

I'd actually considered that theory myself. Considering that even Admin-Prime seemed a bit worried about how the plan would work out, it's entirely possible that their attempts could've had dire, unforeseen consequences such as cracks in the fourth wall.

So then the retcon may indeed have been a desperate attempt to fix a bad situation... makes me wonder, what consequences would Zack's departure have resulted in, if the Administrators were desperate enough to try such a dangerous tactic as an infinite-layer retcon?

[NeverSlender]

Read above, I had a theory about that.

EDIT: Here it is.


Not sure. I was thinking that, in the same way that A. C. Doyle's version of Holmes is one canon, and there are other Holmes canons, what Zack films with his camera could be one canon and if a new camera and cameraman is used it could create a new canon. They would then have to start again.

[Dryunya]

The right solution is usually the most simple. I figured I should ask Mr. A about Zack.

[Scarab]

The right solution is usually the most simple. I figured I should ask Mr. A about Zack.

Well, I doubt you'll get a straight answer but you should probably go for it anyway. We can use all the clues we can get.

[JackAlsworth]

https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs/status/253170728713728000

EDIT: The message says, "@Dryunya HE CANNOT REACH THE VOID ON A WHIM. CURRENTLY, HE SERVES ONLY TO DISTRACT FROM MORE PRESSING MATTERS"

Either this is on the wrong track, or Mr. A wants you to THINK it's on the wrong track.

[The Finch]

Could you type the message please?
The place where I'm at won't let me use Twitter.

[Dryunya]

Well, we've been around long enough to read this in a meta-way: "We won't tell you anything until EC finale, stop bugging us".
There go my attempts at building the model.

Oh. Update. Mr. A has all but confirmed that Zack's departure is unrelated to the wall's decay. Better than nothing.

[NeverSlender]

"HE CANNOT REACH THE VOID ON A WHIM. CURRENTLY HE ONLY SERVES TO DISTRACT FROM MORE PRESSING MATTERS."

Dunno what the pressing matters are. We don't really have much to go on right now.

[JackAlsworth]

"HE IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE CRISIS AT HAND. THE CRISIS HE HAS CREATED IS UNRELATED."

ARG v2?

Although this could also mean that the attempted retcon of Zack was not, as we had considered, the initial break of the fourth wall.

[The Finch]

"HE CANNOT REACH THE VOID ON A WHIM. CURRENTLY HE ONLY SERVES TO DISTRACT FROM MORE PRESSING MATTERS."

Dunno what the pressing matters are. We don't really have much to go on right now.

I don't know, the freaking 4TH WALL breaking?

[Dryunya]

Ok. If I go meta again, I'd interpret that as saying that the ARG is not (directly, anyway) related to the EC finale. That's kind of disappointing, but I guess we have no choice but to drop the issue.

(But I still need that to build the model. )

Laconic: Zack did not break the wall. Mr. A's retcons probably didn't, either. That is, assuming you trust him.

[NeverSlender]

I'm talking meta. He seems to be saying we should be concentrating on something else, not Zack.