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France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:15 pm
by Sicon112
Huge wall of text just went up on Poirot's blog. Reading now, and theorizing as soon as ideas come to me.

EDIT: What we have gathered:

  • Poirot confirmed the time of death as being during the party when asked:

    I have been told that the mild onset of what they call ‘rigor mortis’ confirmed that Comte de Cavaignac was murdered 3-4 hours before he was examined, which would place his death in the middle of the reception from 19:00 to 22:00, yes. He was seen that night at 18:30, shuffling to the office with what was described as… I suppose you would say, ‘brooding’ expression, as if he was dealing with something of the utmost importance.

  • Further questioning requesting information on the seeming discrepancy between Poirot's head count,

    ...ten people, as well as the wife...


    and the number of actual guests counted has remained unanswered as of yet. It is likely that the unaccounted for guest is Poirot's mystery benefactor.
  • Due to Poirot's description of the wounds as "shallow" the likelihood of the guilty party being someone with little physical strength, such as the wife, Valerie, or the elderly couple increases. However, at this time there does not seem to be a way for the wife to have killed him, due to the time of death being confirmed.
  • Suspicion about a conspiracy cannot be discounted at this time either. Even if the wife could not have committed the murder directly, she is suspicious for ordering the servants to leave the victim alone, and the fact that a pair of her gloves were missing. Personally, I notice a possibility for a framing plot beginning to manifest here, so the wife may be innocent after all.
  • The anti-social couple are also suspicious, as their strange actions may indicate guilt over involvement with the murder. However, Poirot has said that they were confirmed to stay in the hall all night, and we have no precedent to compare their actions to. They may just be anti-social.
  • Finally, as I stated, speculation on the motive is going to involve a lot of guessing, because a murder mystery, even a Fair-Play Whodunnit, will always release the motive information last.
  • As noted by YankeeWhite, the fact that Jacqueline was wearing a white dress lowers the chance of her committing the murder; though the wounds were shallow, there would likely have been blood stains. (Besides, as Dryu said, she is too obvious) Similarly, Valerie, in line with my former musings, is increasingly likely to be the direct killer due to her red dress. (However, for meta reasons I don't think things are going to be quite as simple as we think.)
  • Poirot has still not resolved the guest discrepancy, and it seems very likely that it will turn out to be important. Also, Yankee has attempted to get the "strange numbers" from the back of the Swiss bank card found in the victim's pocket, but all remains quiet.

I'm going to be gone for about 24 hours after this, so I hope you guys can put this info to good use without me. Catch you all later, and good luck!

EDIT2: I have returned and am in an awesome mood after kicking ass on that test. Just finished updating the most important bits of info I saw. I need to go catch up on the posts in other sections, then I will rejoin you here and get anything I messed added in.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:17 pm
by NeverSlender
There's not much more we can do if he's not gonna listen to us.

EDIT: I now have the most posts!

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:20 pm
by Sicon112
NeverSlender wrote:There's not much more we can do if he's not gonna listen to us.


I beg to differ. We have a new murder. I think the detective plot just went into phase two. Everyone willing, take a look and give me your thoughts here. I already requested verification of the time of death from him; otherwise all of the evidence he has collected so far is moot. Further study begins now.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:22 pm
by NeverSlender
Sicon112 wrote:
NeverSlender wrote:There's not much more we can do if he's not gonna listen to us.


I beg to differ. We have a new murder. I think the detective plot just went into phase two. Everyone willing, take a look and give me your thoughts here. I already requested verification of the time of death from him; otherwise all of the evidence he has collected so far is moot. Further study begins now.


Do you know what, I think I'm losing it, for some reason I thought you were talking about Holmes' blog. I'll read Poirot's and see what I come up with.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:22 pm
by JackAlsworth
I love how one of the first things he says is, "The butler didn't do it."

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:22 pm
by Adell
I've added the post to the "What we Know section," though it is annoying that we'll need to essentially drop our current attempts to convince him in favor of helping with this murder.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:23 pm
by IslaKariese
I dunno if it's just me, but I only counted nine guests that he addressed, when he said it was ten. What'd I miss?

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:25 pm
by Adell
IslaKariese wrote:I dunno if it's just me, but I only counted nine guests that he addressed, when he said it was ten. What'd I miss?


Maybe the benefactor?

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:25 pm
by Sicon112
NeverSlender wrote:EDIT: I now have the most posts!


So I have noticed. Sneaky man. I shall reclaim my title post-haste.

Anyhow, I disagree with Poirot's classification of the wife as a low priority suspect. If the time of death cannot be confirmed, she could have killed him right as the party started, or right when she went to find him. It is also overall useful info in general, so I hope he answers.

I'm examining his report of the body, because I'm sure there is a clue in the description of the stab wounds, or so my Genre Savvyness tells me. After that, I'm going over the suspect list in greater detail and I'll give a report when complete.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:26 pm
by Sicon112
Adell wrote:
IslaKariese wrote:I dunno if it's just me, but I only counted nine guests that he addressed, when he said it was ten. What'd I miss?


Maybe the benefactor?


Good catch. I'll look into that as well. the benefactor is also a prime suspect as well as obviously important to the plot. Watch out for info on him in subsequent posts, but do not ask for it directly from Poirot, or you might anger him.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:26 pm
by Dryunya
Hoooly crap, that's a lot of text. Sorry, I'll have to deal with it tomorrow. :(

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:32 pm
by NeverSlender
The stab wounds were shallow. Could this be because the murderer wan't very strong?

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:34 pm
by Sicon112
NeverSlender wrote:The stab wounds were shallow. Could this be because the murderer wan't very strong?


Already came to that conclusion. In addition, Poirot reported that the desk was neat. That means little struggle. The attack came suddenly, and took him by surprise. Upon further consideration, this increases the chances of either his wife, or Valerie being the murderer. For instance, Valerie could have approached pretending to seduce him and then stabbed him. However, there is to little info to begin constructing a motive yet. Always, the motive of the true killer is the last thing to become known.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:36 pm
by IslaKariese
Sicon112 wrote:Good catch. I'll look into that as well. the benefactor is also a prime suspect as well as obviously important to the plot. Watch out for info on him in subsequent posts, but do not ask for it directly from Poirot, or you might anger him.


Why would the mention of a benefactor anger him?

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:37 pm
by NeverSlender
A motive for the wife could be that he was having an affair with Valerie and she caught him.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:38 pm
by Sicon112
IslaKariese wrote:
Sicon112 wrote:Good catch. I'll look into that as well. the benefactor is also a prime suspect as well as obviously important to the plot. Watch out for info on him in subsequent posts, but do not ask for it directly from Poirot, or you might anger him.


Why would the mention of a benefactor anger him?


He was very clear that the benefactor had requested his silence. Trying to pester him on the topic just means that people weren't listening.

EDIT: In retrospect, it would probably be OK to just ask about the number discrepancy though.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:38 pm
by IslaKariese
NeverSlender wrote:A motive for the wife could be that he was having an affair with Valerie and she caught him.

But remember, the wife was accounted for during the whole party due to how social she was.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:39 pm
by NeverSlender
IslaKariese wrote:
NeverSlender wrote:A motive for the wife could be that he was having an affair with Valerie and she caught him.

But remember, the wife was accounted for during the whole party due to how social she was.


Like Sicon said , she can't be disounted until we have a time of death.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:40 pm
by Sicon112
IslaKariese wrote:
NeverSlender wrote:A motive for the wife could be that he was having an affair with Valerie and she caught him.

But remember, the wife was accounted for during the whole party due to how social she was.


Which is why I asked for confirmation of the time of death. That way we can know if he died before, during, or after the party. She could have killed him right before it started, or at the time when she supposedly found the body.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:41 pm
by Sicon112
Time of death confirmed! The wife is likely not a direct suspect!

I have been told that the mild onset of what they call ‘rigor mortis’ confirmed that Comte de Cavaignac was murdered 3-4 hours before he was examined, which would place his death in the middle of the reception from 19:00 to 22:00, yes. He was seen that night at 18:30, shuffling to the office with what was described as… I suppose you would say, ‘brooding’ expression, as if he was dealing with something of the utmost importance.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:41 pm
by NeverSlender
Also the wife gave strict instructions to the butlers not to bother him. I can't see a reason for that.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:42 pm
by Sicon112
NeverSlender wrote:Also the wife gave strict instructions to the butlers not to bother him. I can't see a reason for that.


Indeed. I will not discount the possibility of a conspiracy this early in the plot.

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:43 pm
by IslaKariese
So it had to be one of the few who weren't constantly accounted for. I would almost think of the elderly couple. With the wounds being shallow, the grip should've been weak...

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:44 pm
by NeverSlender
Big announcement. A divorce? A child with Valerie? Not the things you announce at a party, but then we don't know the mans character:

Re: France and a New Mystery

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:45 pm
by Sicon112
Just requested an explanation of the guest discrepancy. Let's see how he reacts.