Krika wrote:Yes, I agree that time should be a dimension in the model, but it's one that everything has, and it's unimportant for determining the shape of the metaverse. Including it as more than an assumption would make the model more confusing than it needs to be.
Sicon112 wrote:Krika wrote:Yes, I agree that time should be a dimension in the model, but it's one that everything has, and it's unimportant for determining the shape of the metaverse. Including it as more than an assumption would make the model more confusing than it needs to be.
Actually, while time is in each universe, when you look at things from outside like this model attempts to do, time becomes meaningless since the "time" dimension only affects things within a universe and has only the slightest relation to the "time" of other universes in its 4d multiverse. Comparing time between multiverses has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Basically, time doesn't need to be part of the model. We know it is there within each universe, but when you look at a universe from outside, all points on the time dimension can be observed, such as when you read a book.
S_o_S wrote:This is all making my brain seriously hurt.
Dryunya wrote:Ok. Now I'll try to make sense of the Witch's interpretation of the model. I'm bad at spatial four-dimensional thinking (space-time thinking is still OK), so I'll need your opinion.Wicked Witch wrote:The problem with this is that wormholes only work within the four dimensions of space and time. Wormholes will either bridged distances in 3 dimensions or connect alternate universes with your universe.
You can break through the connecting walls of each alternate universe, but you cannot connect to a universe that is completely separate from your own. For those of you who are familiar with four dimensional geometic shapes: instead of connecting to another cube in a tesseract, I need to connect to a completely different tesseract and cross what could be considered a fifth dimension – this White Void, or Fourth Wall, or what have you. Wormholes can’t do that, so I’m still stuck here.
Ok. By the second sentence, she lost me.
So our universe is represented with 3 spatial coordinates and 1 temporal coordinate. Makes sense.
Now adding one more dimension would represent our entire universe and its history as a 5-dimensional plane. Travelling along the 5th axis would mean travelling between the parallel planes representing other universes (oh hey, that is why they are called "parallel worlds").
The way I see it, we may divide the 5-dimensional space in two by an impassable (via wormholes, or whatever) 5-dimensional plane which we call The White Void. The halves of the metaverse are still infinite, so it's ok.Travelling along the 5th axis in the fictional half would mean travelling between different stories.
...and now that I have to include the intersections of the fictional universes, canon weldings and whatnot, and especially nested universes, I'm officially baffled. Considering that every 4-dimensional space in the fictional half should still have its sub-universe... Ok, I'm stuck in my own words. Basically, I'm saying that our model implies infinite-dimensional space, no matter how hardcore it may sound.![]()
Now is your turn to say it in a way that actually makes sense.
UPD: I'm not sure what she meant by "separate tesseracts". If she meant separated in the 5-dimentional space - most of them are. If she still meant 4-dimensional one, then the tesseracts would have to be finite, which is hardly correct.
eli_gone_crazy wrote:I've heard it explained that every universe is a bubble, and some bubbles touch each other, but some are separated by other bubbles.
I'm guessing that wormholes connect the universes that touch, but the white void is almost like a fabric surrounding all the universes, connecting them all. \
eli_gone_crazy wrote:I've heard it explained that every universe is a bubble, and some bubbles touch each other, but some are separated by other bubbles.
I'm guessing that wormholes connect the universes that touch, but the white void is almost like a fabric surrounding all the universes, connecting them all. \
Dryunya wrote:eli_gone_crazy wrote:I've heard it explained that every universe is a bubble, and some bubbles touch each other, but some are separated by other bubbles.
I'm guessing that wormholes connect the universes that touch, but the white void is almost like a fabric surrounding all the universes, connecting them all. \
Well, the explanations like that are suitable to make some general <whatever; brain fart>, but we are trying to make a model that makes mathematical sense, which is pretty badass, if you think about it.(Or, considering that we are doing all this extensive mind-bending research for an imaginary world, pretty pathetic. -_-")
Krika wrote:Which, given that there is specific proof of them coming into contact with ours, is a problem how? Just because they're stories to us (until now) doesn't mean that they're any less real.
Krika wrote:Which, given that there is specific proof of them coming into contact with ours, is a problem how? Just because they're stories to us (until now) doesn't mean that they're any less real.
Sicon112 wrote:Krika wrote:Which, given that there is specific proof of them coming into contact with ours, is a problem how? Just because they're stories to us (until now) doesn't mean that they're any less real.
Actually, there appears to be a fundamental difference between the two types that can aptly be characterized as "real" and "fiction". That is the whole point.
The issue is that this multiverse is the "creator" to all of the others. The fictional levels of the metaverse trace backwards to this single parent multiverse, and it seems that a fictional universe coming into contact with a creator universe creates a catastrophe.
Note: Fictional cross overs between worlds that regard each other as fiction still work because neither is the true creator universe for the other. While each regard each other as fiction, they actually have the relationship that you are talking about. Each one is as real as the other, that is to say, not at all.
Note2: Definition of 'real' in this model would be "Something that is a creator universe, but has no creator universe linked to it."
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:Victin, I'm working based on a 6D model: the first 3 dimensions are spatial, the 4th is temporal, the 5th separates parallel universes, and the 6th separates the real world and fictional universes from each other.
Laconic: So the "essence" of each character remains in the void, and every time their story is told differently, a new copy of that character lives it out in a new parallel universe to that story. But when the wall broke, the "essence" of the characters made an extra copy that came to the REAL world instead of a new parallel universe for that character's story. We have to write a new parallel universe for the character to send them to.
...that wasn't really shorter than my first attempt. But I tried to simplify the language, though that meant taking out the comparison to A.
Sicon112 wrote:First of all, time really doesn't matter in this equation, people. Time is a coordinate within a multiverse like our own, but, due to the Witch's wormhole experiments our theory that time was disconnected between worlds has been confirmed, so we can drop that variable when we model the entire metaverse. (This is also what I've been trying to say in regard to the reading thing)
Secondly, I noticed Pixie say in the chatbox that the above theory was the only one that explained recent data. However, Qara and I already had a theory on the subject. The fact that fictionals bring their narratives over here with them makes the simplest explanation for Morgan's situation this: that once she came over to this world her 'setting' began to leak over at once into her brain. If it is only happening for her, DF's theory in the chatbox, which blamed it on the vague nature of folk tales, is probably correct.
Wacky mentioned in the chatbox that he now thought the fictionals were affected by the act of 'writing' instead of reading, which is very probably correct, as the emphasis has been on that throughout this and EC. However, I think I should clarify that time is not really important in this case either. Therefore, every time a new fictional is created in our timeline, a new universe IS spun off, but the universe then proceeds to exist alongside the others as if it had always been there.
Scarab wrote:Sicon112 wrote:First of all, time really doesn't matter in this equation, people. Time is a coordinate within a multiverse like our own, but, due to the Witch's wormhole experiments our theory that time was disconnected between worlds has been confirmed, so we can drop that variable when we model the entire metaverse. (This is also what I've been trying to say in regard to the reading thing)
Secondly, I noticed Pixie say in the chatbox that the above theory was the only one that explained recent data. However, Qara and I already had a theory on the subject. The fact that fictionals bring their narratives over here with them makes the simplest explanation for Morgan's situation this: that once she came over to this world her 'setting' began to leak over at once into her brain. If it is only happening for her, DF's theory in the chatbox, which blamed it on the vague nature of folk tales, is probably correct.
Wacky mentioned in the chatbox that he now thought the fictionals were affected by the act of 'writing' instead of reading, which is very probably correct, as the emphasis has been on that throughout this and EC. However, I think I should clarify that time is not really important in this case either. Therefore, every time a new fictional is created in our timeline, a new universe IS spun off, but the universe then proceeds to exist alongside the others as if it had always been there.
In other words, somewhere out there are Romeo and Juliet, still the young martys who die for their love. The story Shakespeare created hasn't changed, a new story has been created. These people here are, quite literally brand new people, albeit still defined by previous experiences.
So... wait, essentially, Morgan became the collective of all versions of her that have previously been written? In much the same way, say, alternate universe versions of ourselves would still be ourselves, regardless of experience. So if you were to mash all of us together into one identity, would identities experieces hold dominance over others, or is it some kind of equal merge, depending on how simialr each personality is?
...Or am I just completely missing the point here?
Dana wrote:They probably go somewhere in the 7th dimension - that of adorability.
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:Dana wrote:They probably go somewhere in the 7th dimension - that of adorability.
It looks like we're going to have to revise our model yet again, guys; turns out we're not dealing with six dimensions (one, time, being irrelevant), but seven. We're going to have to work out whether adorability functions more like time or like space, and adapt the model accordingly, taking into account how this affects our previous conclusions.
Okay, that's about as long as I can hold that straight face. Also, I'm not just posting this to be silly, but-- *looks over her shoulder with paranoia*-- I'll have to trust you to recognize my implied conclusion.
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