Adam F

"When I looked around I saw and heard of none like me. Was I a monster, a blot upon the earth from which all men fled and whom all men disowned?" :(

[Refictionalized 25 Nov 2012]

Re: Adam F

Postby Genndy Oda C.O.G. on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:32 am

Does Adam even want to be refictionalized yet?
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Re: Adam F

Postby narrativedilettante on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:42 am

Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Does Adam even want to be refictionalized yet?


We're not sure how much he understands about where/what he is. Even the concept of refictionalization might be a bit extreme at the moment. We should probably move toward it gradually through comments on his blog.
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Re: Adam F

Postby Pixelmage on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:45 am

The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.
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Re: Adam F

Postby Scarab on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 am

Pixelmage wrote:The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.


I agree that it's a possible card that can be played but... yeeeah. No.
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Re: Adam F

Postby H22 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 pm

Pixelmage wrote:The other option is surprise bomb him. We write a nice story.. "Hey Adam, care to hear a play I wrote? I'd like your opinion... *poof* Adam on the other side."

By the way, I'm not sugesting that we do that. It's just one of the cards we can play.


I don't think the GMs are that naive. I'm with Scarab, it would be... Distinctly uncharming.
Last edited by H22 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adam F

Postby Victin on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 pm

We would have to send it to Sandy.
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Re: Adam F

Postby H22 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:14 pm

On a separate note, I wish to start introducing Adam to the idea (Clarification: That of his refictionalisation) Suggestions?
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Re: Adam F

Postby Scarab on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:57 pm

H22 wrote:On a separate note, I wish to start introducing Adam to the idea (Clarification: That of his refictionalisation) Suggestions?


Oh, lord, I really have no idea at this point. We have no idea where we'd be SENDING the guy... Maybe we should wait until we learn more?
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Re: Adam F

Postby Genndy Oda C.O.G. on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:04 pm

Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?
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Re: Adam F

Postby Victin on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:05 pm

Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?

yes. Say something like: "Research more for your play! Make references! Show that critics your guts!"
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Re: Adam F

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:09 pm

Victin wrote:
Genndy Oda C.O.G. wrote:Yeah, that sounds good. Maybe we could encourage him to visit his local bookstore more often?

yes. Say something like: "Research more for your play! Make references! Show that critics your guts!"


I'm not sure I like this idea.
But I don't want to get called out for stopping anyone, so... *shrug*

But it's a better idea to just ease him into a Sicon-speech or two, possibly rewritten and sent by me or Scarab, since we're the ones he trusts the most.
Why are we even arguing about a dead fictional dude and hypothetical ninjas?

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Re: Adam F

Postby Genndy Oda C.O.G. on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:15 pm

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:But it's a better idea to just ease him into a Sicon-speech or two, possibly rewritten and sent by me or Scarab, since we're the ones he trusts the most.

That'll work.
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Re: Adam F

Postby H22 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:12 am

I second Qara and Genndy. Could we do it fairly... subtly, however?
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Re: Adam F

Postby Dryunya on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Now that Adam was refictionalized, Sandy made a final post on his blog (dunno how she got hold of the password, but with elephants ;) ).

First, HOLYSHITMORECATS. Dunno if she'll reply, but I've already made an inqury about their polydactyly. :gurt:
Second, that post shows that Shelley wasn't fictionalized, she was duplicated as a character. So, makes sense, I guess. But then, why can't we do the same with real people? :|
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Re: Adam F

Postby Qara-Xuan Zenith on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 pm

Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.
Why are we even arguing about a dead fictional dude and hypothetical ninjas?

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Re: Adam F

Postby WackyMeetsPractical on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:00 am

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:
Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.


I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?
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Re: Adam F

Postby narrativedilettante on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 am

Considering the inclusion of real people as characters in our refictionalization efforts, I can understand how it could cause problems. If handled well we might be able to get away with it, but if handled poorly it could cause plot holes or just take over the story with rationalizations. Shelley the fictional cat won't wonder where she came from or require a new and complicated backstory.

I am sad to learn that we can't fictionalize animals after all. But I'm glad that Shelley is safe in Sandy's care.
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Re: Adam F

Postby Sicon112 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:05 am

WackyMeetsPractical wrote:
Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:
Dryunya wrote:Why can't we do the same with real people? :|


Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.


I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?


Biographies and such non-fiction are chronicles of events that already exist in our universe and our timeline, therefore they require no further representation. Any errors are handwaved because they are covered by the AUs that exist parallel to our world. Basing characters off of real people is not cloning because of course you don't make them exactly the same. The characters are unique in their own ways, which is what you are saying.

Yes, that is a theory, but it is the best one we have currently on this topic given the information we have. If anyone has an explanation for why there should be a SECOND instance of real events occurring, go ahead and share, because from what I know it makes very little sense. So far this has been specifically focused on fiction and has completely ignored any possibility of non-fiction involvement. Should that change, fine. However, it has not yet done so and we have no information pointing to it.
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Re: Adam F

Postby H22 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:24 pm

I can only embed 3 quotes :cry:

Presumably because that would sort of make us monsters?
I mean, cats don't really have personality to speak of, so with elephants.
But to essentially clone a two-dimensional version of a real person, and stick him/her into a fictional world... that starts to get creepy and wrong.[/quote]

I don't follow. It happens all the time, when we write biographies, non-fiction, including news reports and blogs and letters. It's not the least bit creepy. Some authors even write characters based directly from people they know from real life. Sherlock Holmes was supposedly based off a real world professor. And he's not just a creepy clone. He's taken on an identity and a life of his own, resembling, but distinct from the real world person he was based on. I see no difference. For example, if we had written a refic story for Adam where he ends up with a girl named Sandy who happens to be an actress, would she just be a creepy clone of a real world person, or would she be a full blown fictional character herself with her own past and personality?[/
Biographies and such non-fiction are chronicles of events that already exist in our universe and our timeline, therefore they require no further representation. Any errors are handwaved because they are covered by the AUs that exist parallel to our world. Basing characters off of real people is not cloning because of course you don't make them exactly the same. The characters are unique in their own ways, which is what you are saying.

Yes, that is a theory, but it is the best one we have currently on this topic given the information we have. If anyone has an explanation for why there should be a SECOND instance of real events occurring, go ahead and share, because from what I know it makes very little sense. So far this has been specifically focused on fiction and has completely ignored any possibility of non-fiction involvement. Should that change, fine. However, it has not yet done so and we have no information pointing to it.[/quote]

The Wall protects FICTIONAL characters/settings/tropes, not all creative work. But what about historical fiction? Where does that end up? (I've long wanted to know what happens to 'characters' in poetry, actually.)
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Re: Adam F

Postby Sicon112 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm

What we suggested earlier is probably the best bet. Namely, that fiction set in a historical period is fiction, and badly done "historical" accounts are real, just covered in an AU. Or maybe they don't even count. Who knows. As to fictitious events/legends surrounding real people... probably some combination of the two. Something like goofy stories of Abraham Lincoln slaying zombies would be fiction, and works of fiction such as Julius Caesar, the play, are probably also fiction, as intended by their creators. A historical account of something that didn't happen, but is widely thought to HAVE happened is probably just AU territory again.
Normal people are the easiest to manipulate. Too smart and they have an annoying tendency to catch wind of your plans, too dumb and, in the words of a certain pirate, "You can never tell when they are about to do something incredibly...stupid."
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Re: Adam F

Postby H22 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:24 am

I suppose you almost need the mens rea to create fiction. For instance, if I wrote John Maynard Keynes was a carpenter who died in 1997 and had eighteen children, I don't intend to add to Beyond The Wall. (Shame on you, by the way; there's a demographic explosion.)
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